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Annpan wrote:
You should avoid (unless told otherwise by a very trustworthy and trained professional- or 2)
All aromatherapy stuff
All herbal teas
All medicines (including paracetamol and all herbal remedies)
Caffeine
Alcohol
All 'alternative therapies' (like reflexology, acupuncture, etc)
Shell fish
Unpasteurised dairy products
uncooked (or semi-cooked eggs)
Cured meats (salami etc)

WOWWWWWW!!! see... no offence intended to you whatsoever Annpan but i think lists of things to avoid of this variety are nothing less than scaremongering. aside from the alternative therapies and meat (of any description) i have consumed every single other item on that list during this pregnancy. Should i be to blame if something were wrong? World-wide, women have produced healthy offspring for millenia without such nannying advice. I would say that the above would be the least of ones worries in this toxic day and age during pregnancy and as has been mentioned in the thread, we can never know the will of the 'World'.

p.s. i realise the list reads to 'avoid', but i've been made to feel constantly guilty for my actions during this pregnancy by outside parties and i'm sick of it!! "you mustn't cycle, do too much gardening, eat an apple without washing yer hands first, use any products with lavender oil in them...." madness!!!! when will we begin to see pregnancy as completely natural process of life, not a tenuous condition?

p.p.s i am defensive, hormonal and moody, please excuse rant!

I saw that list a while ago and it made me think many things, lets see if I can get them down coherently

1. Aromatherapy.

I´m a clinical aromatherapist, it is just wrong to advise women to steer clear of it during pregnancyit can be of great help for many problems and just plain enjoyable providing information is sought (of course what I am talking about here is the external use of essential oils as per the British model).

Whilst I´m here I can provide that information. Aromatherapists such as myself are not allowed by condition of our insurance to practice on women in the first trimester, this is not because there is any proof to suggest using aromatherapy, in accordance with ones training, is harmful during this time, it is just that this is when MC can naturally occur (something around 2/3 of pregnancies - most in very very very early stage). If you have a MC you naturally look for an explanation, if you happened to have just had a massage you might ascribe that as the cause - and frankly insurers are not going to take that risk.

There are oils to be avoided during pregnancy. Most of these are not available on sale to the general public and again are prohibited from use by insurers because they are generally considered toxic.

I have a very boring book that lists both research and anecdotal evidence of toxicity of essential oils. In the profession it is considered the last word on the subject.

Here is the list of oils proven with research or through hospital reports to be toxic during pregnancy:

Camphor (white), Ho leaf (camphor/safrole ct), Hyssop, Indian dill, Parsley (leaf and seed), Spanish sage, Savin.

I have never seen any of these available for general purchase.

The same book urges caution with the following:

Wormwood, Lavedula stoechas, lavender cotton, oakmoss, treemoss.

Again not likely to be found in the shops or in use by your average practitioner.

Completely without any evidence (and usually by way of extrapolation from data concerning the internal consumption of vast quantities of the plant of essential oil itself regarding either toxicity or hormonal action), the following are often on do not use lists :

Basil, Birch, Atlas Cedarwood, Clary sage, Jasmine, Juniper berry, Sweet marjoram, Myrrh, Peppermint, Rosemary, Tarragon, Thyme.

2. All herbal teas

My lecturer in France (a professor in naturopathy at the University in Lausanne) said that basically any substance becomes a medicinal dose if taken in great enough quantity. The odd cup of herbal tea at the usual strength is not going to cause harm, if you drink it several times a day it will become like taking a medicine....the effect of that will depend on the herb itself.

3. All medicines.

Without proper guidance of course not.

4. Alcohol

There is plenty of research out there (mostly done by the Danes - they have a bit of a bee in their bonnet about it), that explains what the effects of alcohol use are on the unborn child. Its bad news, but the occasional glass of wine late on doesn´t hurt, seems to sum it up.

5. Alternative therapies

If someone is properly trained (and you can work this out by who they are accredited by), they will be able to handle pregnancy appropriately. It is not a no-no, in fact to say so could be counter productive to someone having a healthy pregnancy and birth.

6. Food stuffs

Interestingly this is very cultural. You won´t find Spanish doctors advising against these things, and the ones listed above are far more commonly consumed here. It seems predominantly to do with the risk of salmonella, e.coli and the like. My take on it is that by being pregnant you are no more likely to get any of these things than if you weren´t pregnant. If the risk of it seems acceptable to me when I am not pregnant then why would I stop when I am pregnant. It´s porcelain doll thinking, and that is what leads us into fearing pregnancy and birth rather than accepting it for the normal state that it is and that leads us into medicalised pregnancy and childbirth.....

The only foodie warning that made any sense to me was liver, the liver is the organ which processes toxins, it also stores vitamin A, large doses of which have been proved to cause birth defects. This is just a commonsense one.

On the other hand AnnPan is right in a way.....for her only. There is a lot to be said for intuition and if AnnPan feels like she should avoid so many things, it may be because she has a gut instinct that her pregnancy needs/needed (I´m losing track on who´s preggers round this place!) to be handled with care and that is valid and an entirely appropriate feeling.

I think many pregnancy food prohibitions are cultural and often play
on our worst fears without good cause. In Italy, France and Germany pregnant women are encouraged to enjoy a glass of wine with their meal, which quite possibly involves unpasteurised cheese, pate or rare-cooked meats while Japanese women eat sushi whilst pregnant. Americans are warned not to eat spicy foods whilst pregnant and yet Mexican and Indian women scoff them with impunity. We are told to abstain from alcohol, all soft cheeses and any uncooked or rare fish/meats and yet there is no warning on eating fast foods which are more likely to contain harmful pathogens.

contadina wrote:I think many pregnancy food prohibitions are cultural and often play
on our worst fears without good cause. In Italy, France and Germany pregnant women are encouraged to enjoy a glass of wine with their meal, which quite possibly involves unpasteurised cheese, pate or rare-cooked meats while Japanese women eat sushi whilst pregnant. Americans are warned not to eat spicy foods whilst pregnant and yet Mexican and Indian women scoff them with impunity. We are told to abstain from alcohol, all soft cheeses and any uncooked or rare fish/meats and yet there is no warning on eating fast foods which are more likely to contain harmful pathogens.

The official line on alcohol during pregnancy in France is that it should be avoided. This is not a great hardship for French women as most of them hardly drink anyway.

The only foodstuff which is tagged for avoidence here is .... fresh strawberrires! But only if the mother flags up as not ever having had toxioplasmosis: strawberries are, it seems, impossible to clean completely because of the dimples.

Clara says a lot of sensible things here *points upwards*. I own a book entitled "Aromatherapy in Pregnancy & Childbirth". I used lavender oil a lot during my first pregnancy.

Ratty

THANK you!! completely agree with everything you said clara, was what i was thinking but dont have the knowledge to articulate! can i ask you though, I use a homemade mouthwash with a lavender tincture base, is that very different to lavender cotton oil?

so many people love feeding me lines on how terrible and traumatic labour is, and i dont disagree that it probably was for a lot for them, but i dont believe that it has to be that way. I think the scaremongering that occurs during pregnancy follows through to labour, we're made to see it as this medical ordeal, when actually it is a completely natural process! (that doesnt mean i dont want the drugs btw lol)

and to annpan... i really meant no personal disrespect of course it is entirely up to the pregnant woman what she chooses to do, only i have seen that same list in books and on the net and stuff as if it is the official line...

contadina wrote:I think many pregnancy food prohibitions are cultural and often play
on our worst fears without good cause. In Italy, France and Germany pregnant women are encouraged to enjoy a glass of wine with their meal, which quite possibly involves unpasteurised cheese, pate or rare-cooked meats while Japanese women eat sushi whilst pregnant. Americans are warned not to eat spicy foods whilst pregnant and yet Mexican and Indian women scoff them with impunity. We are told to abstain from alcohol, all soft cheeses and any uncooked or rare fish/meats and yet there is no warning on eating fast foods which are more likely to contain harmful pathogens.

.... and may i add "yes!!!!"

i (shamefully) was smoking about 5 cigarettes a day until about three weeks ago and a woman in the staffroom (who knew i smoked, and had smoked through all her pregnancies) almost rugby tackled me to the ground when she saw me about to eat feta cheese!! as if THAT was more important than the fact that i was smoking!!! i have quite now, btw, am very proud but a bit disappointed in myself it took so long.

Lavender cotton is an entirely different species (the latin escapes me and I´m too busy scoffing my dinner to go look it up) - don´t worry about it.

Annpan wrote:When I was 'baby-hosting' (I like that lol) I just did what seemed sensible... you do end up avoiding loads of stuff but you get used to it and it isn't a big deal. I think the important thing is to look after yourself and the wee guy, and don't get stressed about the time you walk past a car spray painter.

You should avoid (unless told otherwise by a very trustworthy and trained professional- or 2)
All aromatherapy stuff
All herbal teas
All medicines (including paracetamol and all herbal remedies)
Caffeine
Alcohol
All 'alternative therapies' (like reflexology, acupuncture, etc)
Shell fish
Unpasteurised dairy products
uncooked (or semi-cooked eggs)
Cured meats (salami etc)


I also read that you should avoid nuts... but that was too much for me (plus I was already 5 months when I heard that)

Most of the above is regarded as OTT, but I didn't want to be the one who got salmonella (or whatever) and JohnM watched me like a hawk

Holy crapolla batman!!

One of mine was inflicted (in moderation) with coc*ine, MJuana, alcohol, coffee, tea, the odd cigarette and counter epilepsy medication. He's the tallest in his class and has a mensa IQ.

Things which might cause food poisoning were rightly avoided.

It makes one wonder how the human race has survived up to this point.

Thalidomide, now that is something to watch out for, best avoided unless you have erythema nodosum leprosum, and have been sterilized.

ps. Paracetimol I am told does not pass through the placenta, it's one hell of a great filter, anyone who eats it is asking for trouble LoL