cider? maybe...

[red]

well my cider finally stoped working, and I have bottled it (into plastic) and its not bad - just a little sharp, but very drinkable (and much better than when i took a taste at the racking stage!) its strong, in a subtle sneak up on you way! and a lovely clear amber colour.
I have heard cider can improve on keeping, and also can keep ok for up to a year.... not sure it will last long enough before I drink it to find out!

I put it in plastic as the bottling process can cause a secondary fermentation... and i fancy sparkling cider.. rather than broken glass...

[ilan]

one of the big problems with home brew as opposed to commercial wines /ciders is that of getting some sweetnes into the brew without it fermenting again you could try a little bit of sweetener tablet in a glass full just to take away that initial sharpness

[red]

I can see artificial sweetner might work , but I dont like using it. not a bad tip though

My cider is only a teeny bit sharp - easy to drink, so I think I shall leave it as it is

[the.fee.fairy]

red: I'm presuming that you could stop fermentation to make a still cider with campden tablets.

Would that assumption be right? I've got a sack of apples here wishing to be cider!!

[ilan]

That would be one way of doing it but you run the risk of it fermenting again in the bottle ! plus the sulpher from the campden tablet can be off putting again you come back to commercial makers who high pressure micro filter to remove any possible yeast before bottling sweet ciders . however for home brewers just bottle once its clear dry then sweeten when you drink it ilan perhaps red may be able to help further

[red]

red: I'm presuming that you could stop fermentation to make a still cider with campden tablets.

Would that assumption be right? I've got a sack of apples here wishing to be cider!!

well yes I guess that would work. not tried it though - I just let it work itself out. did not take as long as some of my wines!

[Cheezy]

The French way of keeping natural sweetness is by Keeving.

(See here http://www.cider.org.uk, if your interested and like a bit of chemistry.)

It's an absolute bible site when it come to cider making. You can take as much science as you want from it, or just top tips. THere is also a section on the use of plastic (PET) bottles vs glass. The shelf life is much reduced apparently.

If you control the amount of secondry fermentation in the bottle with a controlled amount of sugar, that is the best product.

[Cheezy]

pressed the apples.. which are sweet dessert type, and got about 1.5 gallons, - didn;t do the camden tablet thing.. .. sg was 1040...!


seasoned cider makers feel free to tell me what i did wrong now its all too late....

Sorry Red only just found this thread, see above link in previous post for the real advice.

Basically real cider is up to you, if your happy with the product, who gives a....

BUT there are a couple of basic principals which are worth sticking to

1. Try to get a mix of apples if you can't get real cider apples. (Kingston Black being the most famous)You need a balance of bitter (tannin), sweet and sour (acidity) a "vintage" cider apple will have been bred to have a good balance of all three. If you can't them try mixing crab apples for tannin, dessert apples for sweetness and cookers for sourness. Try to avoid Bramley's which tend to break down on milling creating a mush which is high in pectin and can cause cloudiness
2. pH (acidity ) is important as it is used to preserve the cider , adds flavour and helps reduce the activity of spoiling bacteria's and wild yeasts.
You can buy quite cheap indicator strips which you dip into the cider to give you an indication of the pH.
pH should be between 3.2 to 3.8
3.2 to 3.3 is acidic but should not need campden tablets
3.4 to 3.5 is balance but should need some campden tablets
3.6 to 3.8 Is Ok but will need more campden tablets to kill off bacterial
anything above 4 is likely to be spoiled by bacteria, you should reduce pH with Malic acid, as the amount of campden tablets is likely to be too high.
That said it's up to you, "farm house" ciders quite often are made as is...but they can be a bit rough. (due to wild yeasts and some bacterial spoilage)
(see www.cider.org. for how many campden tablets to add per gal. for different pH's)
3. Original gravity (OG) is important.
below 1045 you should add extra sugar as the level of alcohol is likely to be too low to aid storage. You can add sugar solution. Again if your not planning to store the cider for long.....
4. Traditional cider undergoes a second aging process which gives a rounder flavour. If you brew in a shed/garage at the traditional time of around November because the lower temps it will mean a slower rate of fermentation. Fermentation stops usually during Jan to Feb and starts again to finishing SG around March. This aging also converts malic acid to Lactic acid which gives a better rounder flavour.....BUT if you haven't used Campden tablets or got the right pH, this extension in fermentation can give the bacteria the opportunity it needs to spoil your cider (and you'll have a load of cider vinegar ). So it's completely up to you.

[red]

blimey - glad i did not read all that chemistry first,, might have put me off!

i found: use the apples you have, dont add campden tablets... but be clean , add cider yeast. wait. drink cider. works for me.

I did add a teeny bit of sugar to the plastic bottles for secondary fermination.. as i like my cider sparkly and it keeps better that way.


as you say tho - its up to the individual.

[red]

found a bottle of cider .. and had to test it. greatly improved.. the sharpness when i first bottled it has gone. it has a slight sparkle, from the bottle conditioning.

guess waiting 4 months after bottling allows it to improve. I liked it before, now its even better. shall definitely be making cider again next year.