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Whilst taken from lake deposits sounds gentle, I was thinking that on the scale required, the effects would sort of be like mining as well - do you know what I mean? I can´t see it being the fair trade initiative of a few indigenous people with wooden spoons There would have to be digger type machinery and processing plants nearby.

Struggling to locate a layperson's explanation about baking soda. Some production seems to require mining as well. Hmmmm....

Still an excellent alternative. But would love a proper explanation.

Clara wrote: I can´t see it being the fair trade initiative of a few indigenous people with wooden spoons

Ah, the visuals killed me.

I was thinking something like surface deposits, for some strange reason.

Clara, did you once mention you had chestnut trees on your land?

It ALL involves mining - either to get the mineral TRONA from which sodium bicarbonate can be extracted (found in north america, kenya & egypt) or LIMESTONE which is used in the older production technique (Solvay process).

Nikki wrote:Clara, did you once mention you had chestnut trees on your land?

Yup, sweet chestnuts. Very tasty, are you going to tell me I can make soap with them !

Clara x.

Just like to offer the warning that baking soda is quite abrasive so really good for general cleaning. I wouldn't use it on my skin. I use baking soda and white vinegar for most stubborn things but due to its acid nature I wouldn't use vinegar for my personal cleaning.

Most personal cleaning for me seems to me catered for quite well using flannel or nailbrush and warm to hot water without soap. Do get the odd stubborn stain though after some jobs so I think I might try Jack's mutton fat if I get round to it. Would definitely need scenting of some kind though cos mutton fat smells a bit!

I think Jack's use of rosemary in the animal fat is a brilliant choice.

Clara, ah sorry, I was thinking of the horse chestnut tree, of which, yeah, you can make soap.

About 3 nuts to a litre of soft water. Steep, stir, allow to settle, pour off clear water. Great for clothes.

Jack wrote:Gidday

Very interesting thread.

But I make my soap out of waste mutton fat and just soak a heap on rosemary in the fat while it's still hot. Not fancy stuff but all made by me here on my own property. Caint get more natural and organic than that.

thats great Jack - I really fancy making soap from entirely home grown produce. can you tell me how you do it?

Nikki wrote: Lye has never sounded okay to me, being caustic soda. But it seems it requires a lot of lab/factory work to get the end product. never mind the amount of water required for the steam process.

I understand making your own lye is not that hard.. certainly John Seymour made it sound easy, and as its made from woodash, where is the harm in that?

red wrote:
I understand making your own lye is not that hard.. certainly John Seymour made it sound easy, and as its made from woodash, where is the harm in that?

Well making it at home is an entirely different thing altogether obviously. I'd be very interested in finding out more. Although would still have a preference for more simple cleaning products/methods.

I have Seymour's book, will take a look. Thanks for the reminder.

Hey, not too difficult at all.

Red - have any idea about lye from soap going on to plants? My aim is to have lots of usable grey water.

Isn´t lye about pH9? It would be too alkali to go on plants alone.

PLEASE be careful if you're making lye. Use some safety specs wear thick clothing that covers all your skin and be cautious. It's natural but it's not going to be safe. As someone pointed out Lye is the old fashioned term for sodium hydroxide http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/s4040.htm. Please read the safety information and precautions before trying to make it. Books discussing lye should also provide good information.

Thanks Cassiiepod.

At the moment we're trying to find out just how eco-friendly these natural products are. That's how thorough we're being.