Ducks and worms, mites, lice etc

[red]

. If people paid as much for their birds as some breeds of dogs, say £500 each, I bet they would be taking great care of them to ensure they didn't pop their clogs.

alas - many dog breeders are in it for the money - they will bump off an imperfect dog because its got a crocked tooth or some other teeny detail, and of course many breeds of dog have inbred problems such as german sheps having hip problems - again because breeders were chasing perfection rather than thinking of the best welfare of the dogs. A mongrel is much more likley to have better health and without that price tag. - and your average mongrel is unlikely to get its tail docked or some other fashion accessory. l so I'm afraid your argument does not stand up.
Furthermore, I think it's a bit unkind suggesting that someone does not care for their animals or fowl if they are asking for help and advice.

[fenwoman]

alas - many dog breeders are in it for the money - they will bump off an imperfect dog because its got a crocked tooth or some other teeny detail, and of course many breeds of dog have inbred problems such as german sheps having hip problems - again because breeders were chasing perfection rather than thinking of the best welfare of the dogs. A mongrel is much more likley to have better health and without that price tag. - and your average mongrel is unlikely to get its tail docked or some other fashion accessory. l so I'm afraid your argument does not stand up.
Furthermore, I think it's a bit unkind suggesting that someone does not care for their animals or fowl if they are asking for help and advice.

I'm afraid you are rather far off the mark. Having been an ex breeder/exhibitor I do not know of one breeder who would kill a pup for having a tooth wrong or any other minor imperfection. Those pups are sold as pet quality as opposed to show quality. Tail docking is now banned and has been for the last month. I have seen mongrels with docked tails. German shepherds and any other large breed dogs can suffer from hip displaysia but responsible breeders have their breeding stock hip scored before mating and would not breed anything which had a high score. Pet owners wanting to make a buck won't bother with scoring and will use any dog no matter how poor or how temperamentally bad it is. Mongrels suffer from the same health problems as purebred dogs. My old collie cross had epilepsy, common in both collies and german shepherds and also had hip displaysia, common in all large breeds.
As for the last comment. The person I was reposnding to was not asking advice, he/she was responding to someone who did ask for advice about worming ducks. They stated that they had never read a book, nor ever wormed their birds. The OP asked advice and I provided a very useful link about womring ducks.
I will happily say that anyone who does not take the time to read about their chosen animal and who refuses to worm and delouse their animals, obviously not care enough since those are a basic part of animal husbandry.

[red]

Tail docking is now banned and has been for the last month.

well good - but only a month? that's appalling. how anyone could allow it in the first place is beyond me.

I have seen mongrels with docked tails.

me too but its rare compared to the dogs with the high price tags: I rest my case on that one

German shepherds and any other large breed dogs can suffer from hip displaysia but responsible breeders have their breeding stock hip scored before mating and would not breed anything which had a high score.

and how did those GS dogs get these problems in the first place? in breeding :hunting down that perfection I mentioned - yup - I stand by my point there.

Pet owners wanting to make a buck won't bother with scoring and will use any dog no matter how poor or how temperamentally bad it is.

this is true - but why do you think 'pet owners wanting to make a buck' are not the same things as breeders... they are both people wanting to make money out of animals, by breeding . some are good and some are bad. without the money incentive.. there would be less bad.

Mongrels suffer from the same health problems as purebred dogs.

but not to the same extent - not as commonly.

My old collie cross had epilepsy, common in both collies and german shepherds and also had hip displaysia, common in all large breeds.

a cross is closer to purebred than mongrel. a cross is not a mongrel. I'm sorry that your old dog had problems. it may have just been bad luck or it may have been the result of bad breeding from somewhere in its background.

As for the last comment. The person I was reposnding to was not asking advice,

but they did ask before as you know.

I will happily say that anyone who does not take the time to read about their chosen animal and who refuses to worm and delouse their animals, obviously not care enough since those are a basic part of animal husbandry.

it does not have to be a book, advice from people already looking after the same animals in the same area has to be of value, and you can read about a lot of things on the internet . I read a lot - but I have read some quite inaccurate advice in books.
I don't think it was refusal to treat their animals - i read it as treating when there was a problem rather than in advance of one. this can be a good choice - over use of drenches has lead to resistance in worms in sheep.

while i might hesitate to eat eggs from a very worm infestive hen, I would also hesitate to eat eggs from a chemical infested hen too. There has to be a balance somewhere.

[flower]

Blimey.....this is turning from a good natured, informative site into a blimmin war zone.

I'll be staying out of the livestock section for a bit cos I come online to relax.
If anyone ever wants to discuss chooks (without the aggro) send me a pm yeah?

see ya! Tara xxx

[Millymollymandy]

Fenwoman - thanks for the link. Unfortunately I can't get either of those products in France.

The only wormer I've come across here is a liquid one called Levamisol that is added to drinking water, thus my query about whether it is safe for ducks to dip their heads in the water including their eyes.

Also I still don't know if any wormer should be pooped out into an aquatic environment. I can't find the answer to either question on the internet (so far). As humans must not eat chicken eggs for 5 days after using Levamisole wormer, I don't like the thought of it anywhere near my pond!

[Millymollymandy]

ps our new weaners are called milly, molly, mandy, and morris

The first year we were here we called the moorhens on our pond, and their offspring, Milly, Molly, Mandy, Mork, Mindy and Mummy!

Nowadays the parents are just known as 'the Millies'.

[red]

dya know - I always thought your name came from that e e cummings poem only now do i notice the names are not the same doh! must pay more attention.

[camillitech]

hi fenwoman,

i think you really do need to chill the only reason i posted on this topic was that poor milly had not had much input that and the fact that i've kept ducks for 18 years. i did also post a warning along the lines of being irresponsible if i had thought that you were going to post i would have kept well clear (having been on the receiving end of your wrath before )
however the last advice you gave me on ducks was and i quote 'ducks are filthy disgusting creatures' hmmmmm 'do yourself a favor and wring his neck' hmmmmmmmm and this was for the crime of trying to mount a hen do you advocate the same treatment to dogs that do this to children. the forum INEBG was different and the name 'fenlanfowl' but the style was unmistakeable.

i suspect the only reason you replied to this was because i did not because of your concern for milly's ducks.

by the way my name is paul, camillitech if you prefer, not him/her, he/she or the poster. but then if you took time to read my posts and not just fly off on one you would know that

lifes to short fenwoman, you have alot of good advice to give so why don't you do it nicely

lol paul

[fenwoman]

Tail docking is now banned and has been for the last month.

well good - but only a month? that's appalling. how anyone could allow it in the first place is beyond me.


Jack russells cost on average £95-£150 so hardly high price tag

German shepherds and any other large breed dogs can suffer from hip displaysia but responsible breeders have their breeding stock hip scored before mating and would not breed anything which had a high score.

and how did those GS dogs get these problems in the first place? in breeding :hunting down that perfection I mentioned - yup - I stand by my point there.

So what about working labradors, retrivers etc which also suffer from hip displaysia. What about the mongrels which also suffer from it?

Pet owners wanting to make a buck won't bother with scoring and will use any dog no matter how poor or how temperamentally bad it is.

this is true - but why do you think 'pet owners wanting to make a buck' are not the same things as breeders... they are both people wanting to make money out of animals, by breeding . some are good and some are bad. without the money incentive.. there would be less bad.

Without proper recompense for their efforts, buying in quality stock, feeding the parents, carefully rearing the young, there would be no breeders of anything purebred and that goes for poultry, sheep, cattle, dogs etc. Breeding quality purebred animals isn't cheap.

Mongrels suffer from the same health problems as purebred dogs.

but not to the same extent - not as commonly.
this is not necessarily true at all. My vet told me that it may be because most people don't deliberately set out to breed mongrels that they wouldn't have thier dogs checked for things like PRA, HD, collie eye anomaly and any of the other conditions. If mongrels suddenly became fashionable, perhaps potential breeders would start checking and be rather shocked at the results. One mongrel owner actually told me that mongrels don't need vaccinating because they are immune to parvo and distemper. Sadly the a number of mongrels in my friend's rescue kennels which have those diseases show the flaw in this belief.

My old collie cross had epilepsy, common in both collies and german shepherds and also had hip displaysia, common in all large breeds.

a cross is closer to purebred than mongrel. a cross is not a mongrel. I'm sorry that your old dog had problems. it may have just been bad luck or it may have been the result of bad breeding from somewhere in its background.

I understand that crossbreds aren't the same as mongrels, and crossbreds and mongrels both suffer from things like HD. Kip wasn't a straight cross, he was a mongrel and he died young.

As for the last comment. The person I was reposnding to was not asking advice,

but they did ask before as you know.

I will happily say that anyone who does not take the time to read about their chosen animal and who refuses to worm and delouse their animals, obviously not care enough since those are a basic part of animal husbandry.

it does not have to be a book, advice from people already looking after the same animals in the same area has to be of value, and you can read about a lot of things on the internet . I read a lot - but I have read some quite inaccurate advice in books.
I don't think it was refusal to treat their animals - i read it as treating when there was a problem rather than in advance of one. this can be a good choice - over use of drenches has lead to resistance in worms in sheep.

while i might hesitate to eat eggs from a very worm infestive hen, I would also hesitate to eat eggs from a chemical infested hen too. There has to be a balance somewhere.

Sadly any advice read or written will have to be based on personal opinion. I personally have seen some terrible advice on forums by people who have kept birds for a year or two and think that they know it all. I spoke to a man recently who wanted to start keeping chickens and when I asked about his level of knowledge he says he had a book his mother had given him. Upon asking about the book he said he couldn't remember what it was called but it was an old one, to which I replied that it might be a good idea to get something more up to date to read about modern worming methods, disease precaustions etc. He said he knew all about worming as the book said to make them eat soot (highly carcinogenic and corrosive). I was shocked and told him that this was not what he should do at all and begged him to buy Katie Thear's book. He said "oh I'm not really interested, I only want some chickens and if I need to know anything I can ask my mother who has had chickens for years".
This was the same mother who gave him a book saying to force feed chickens with soot if they had worms !
Needless to say that not only will I not sell him chickens, but I wouldn't recommend anywhere he could get them from either.
Another chap I bought a trio of bantams off last year had kept birds for 20 years and looked amazed when I asked him when they had last been wormed. He said he never knew they had to be wormed. "what, you mean chickens get worms, just like dogs do? Well I never"

[red]

Sadly any advice read or written will have to be based on personal opinion.

fenwoman, I could argue each point again with you - but in the end, its just a difference of opinion, and we are all entitled to have one. Let's leave it there.

[fenwoman]

Sadly any advice read or written will have to be based on personal opinion.

fenwoman, I could argue each point again with you - but in the end, its just a difference of opinion, and we are all entitled to have one. Let's leave it there.

oh and I was enjoying the debate

[Millymollymandy]

dya know - I always thought your name came from that e e cummings poem only now do i notice the names are not the same doh! must pay more attention.

It's from a series of books about a little girl called Millymollymandy written in about the thirties I think, by Joyce ..... er hang on whilst I google it..... Joyce Lankester Brisley.

[camillitech]

Tail docking is now banned and has been for the last month.

well good - but only a month? that's appalling. how anyone could allow it in the first place is beyond me.


Jack russells cost on average £95-£150 so hardly high price tag

German shepherds and any other large breed dogs can suffer from hip displaysia but responsible breeders have their breeding stock hip scored before mating and would not breed anything which had a high score.

and how did those GS dogs get these problems in the first place? in breeding :hunting down that perfection I mentioned - yup - I stand by my point there.

So what about working labradors, retrivers etc which also suffer from hip displaysia. What about the mongrels which also suffer from it?

Pet owners wanting to make a buck won't bother with scoring and will use any dog no matter how poor or how temperamentally bad it is.

this is true - but why do you think 'pet owners wanting to make a buck' are not the same things as breeders... they are both people wanting to make money out of animals, by breeding . some are good and some are bad. without the money incentive.. there would be less bad.

Without proper recompense for their efforts, buying in quality stock, feeding the parents, carefully rearing the young, there would be no breeders of anything purebred and that goes for poultry, sheep, cattle, dogs etc. Breeding quality purebred animals isn't cheap.

Mongrels suffer from the same health problems as purebred dogs.

but not to the same extent - not as commonly.
this is not necessarily true at all. My vet told me that it may be because most people don't deliberately set out to breed mongrels that they wouldn't have thier dogs checked for things like PRA, HD, collie eye anomaly and any of the other conditions. If mongrels suddenly became fashionable, perhaps potential breeders would start checking and be rather shocked at the results. One mongrel owner actually told me that mongrels don't need vaccinating because they are immune to parvo and distemper. Sadly the a number of mongrels in my friend's rescue kennels which have those diseases show the flaw in this belief.

My old collie cross had epilepsy, common in both collies and german shepherds and also had hip displaysia, common in all large breeds.

a cross is closer to purebred than mongrel. a cross is not a mongrel. I'm sorry that your old dog had problems. it may have just been bad luck or it may have been the result of bad breeding from somewhere in its background.

I understand that crossbreds aren't the same as mongrels, and crossbreds and mongrels both suffer from things like HD. Kip wasn't a straight cross, he was a mongrel and he died young.

As for the last comment. The person I was reposnding to was not asking advice,

but they did ask before as you know.

I will happily say that anyone who does not take the time to read about their chosen animal and who refuses to worm and delouse their animals, obviously not care enough since those are a basic part of animal husbandry.

it does not have to be a book, advice from people already looking after the same animals in the same area has to be of value, and you can read about a lot of things on the internet . I read a lot - but I have read some quite inaccurate advice in books.
I don't think it was refusal to treat their animals - i read it as treating when there was a problem rather than in advance of one. this can be a good choice - over use of drenches has lead to resistance in worms in sheep.

while i might hesitate to eat eggs from a very worm infestive hen, I would also hesitate to eat eggs from a chemical infested hen too. There has to be a balance somewhere.

Sadly any advice read or written will have to be based on personal opinion. I personally have seen some terrible advice on forums by people who have kept birds for a year or two and think that they know it all. I spoke to a man recently who wanted to start keeping chickens and when I asked about his level of knowledge he says he had a book his mother had given him. Upon asking about the book he said he couldn't remember what it was called but it was an old one, to which I replied that it might be a good idea to get something more up to date to read about modern worming methods, disease precaustions etc. He said he knew all about worming as the book said to make them eat soot (highly carcinogenic and corrosive). I was shocked and told him that this was not what he should do at all and begged him to buy Katie Thear's book. He said "oh I'm not really interested, I only want some chickens and if I need to know anything I can ask my mother who has had chickens for years".
This was the same mother who gave him a book saying to force feed chickens with soot if they had worms !
Needless to say that not only will I not sell him chickens, but I wouldn't recommend anywhere he could get them from either.
Another chap I bought a trio of bantams off last year had kept birds for 20 years and looked amazed when I asked him when they had last been wormed. He said he never knew they had to be wormed. "what, you mean chickens get worms, just like dogs do? Well I never"

wow fenwoman red type now EVER THOUGHT OF USING UPPER CASE

cheers, paul

[Stonehead]

lifes to short fenwoman, you have alot of good advice to give so why don't you do it nicely

lol paul

I have to agree. I've been put off posting about poultry in other forums or saying how we do things because of the extreme wrath of the fen person. The language, tone and examples are always the same.

[Wombat]

I have also been following the "discussion" and am becoming concerned that people are being put off posting. I would like to draw everyone's attention to rule 2. If you have any difficulties with this Fenwoman, please feel free to PM me.

Nev