Selfsufficientish.com

happyhippy wrote:Who cares what the reasons behind it are.They should not be commiting crimes and causing havoc to prove a point.The only point they're proving is that they're idiots.Are they now going to gain employment with a crim record? Truly feel sorry for the victims in all this.

Well if you don't learn from why it happens, it will happen again. As I said, not justifying any actions or anyone, I think rioting is a complete waste of time and energy and I'd rather work for change another way. But then luckily I haven't been raised on some forgotten hell-hole estate in London where life is very different and what you maybe class as 'crime' is merely background noise.

As for gaining employment, many are second and third generations who have NEVER had a job, so I don't think that is motivation any longer. And having worked a lot in and around the smouldering areas of London recently, the kind of jobs that are available are dire and truly low paid - I wouldn't do them.

As I said, currently everyone loses.........

I wouldn't do those jobs either, SouthernDave - but then nor do I set fire to someone else's property. Apportioning rather pale pink reasons for the "misdemeanours" of poor, misunderstood, disadvantaged young people does nothing, principally because the people perpetrating these acts of social thuggery are not those people. They're thieves and vandals, pure and simple, and their actions have nothing whatsoever to do with racial or any other form of social deprivation. They're out for a jolly (unless, of course, it could be accepted that a ten-year-old throwing a brick through a window can be allowed the niceties of a considered social conscience).

Take a look around Facebook and Twitter - these events were orchestrated by semi-literate anti-social gawps who don't have nothing better to do - they simply don't have the imagination to conceive of anything better to do.

When they're caught - and a lot of them will be because they've been stupid with their identities - I hope they throw anything they can find in the book at them. It isn't too often I say anything like this - but they're pure scum and the world would be better off if they just dropped dead on the spot.

Mike

Good post MKG, agree with everything you say.

I would like to know what sentence (if any) these thieving ................ will get, probably a slap on the hand.

Sue

SouthernDave wrote: I wouldn't do them.

I assume you mean any kind of work ............It's a shame so many kids are born thinking life owes them a meal ticket, whats wrong with starting at the bottom .............I suppose its beneath them ................Funny thing is that's where they will find the bottom rung of the ladder
Nowt wrong with starting at the bottom, didn't do me any harm, and you learn a lot of wisdom along the way

Dave

Well I am surprised....

Wishing people dead? Scum? Vile?

I did say I do not support people rioting in this fashion and I did say everyone loses. I really don't see how that equates to such name calling and wishing death on people.....hardly enlightened progress is it? And of course a lot of these actions stem out of economic and social deprivation, it is inevitable. A child brought up in a violent crime ridden culture is going to be more than likely to turn out......violent and criminal. Not always and I am sure there will now follow an avalanche of exceptions, but by and large that start in life greatly affects the adults they become. This is not justification for the behaviours exhibited, merely explanation and the two do not always equate. I think they are wrong, but I can see partly why. That does not warrant a death sentence......

And no, I don't mean any kind of work. What I said was that there are NO jobs available to many people with the exception of very, very poor ones for minimum wage or less if unscrupulous employers can get away with it and that if in that situation myself, I would be less than motivated to work either.

Its not a case of starting at the bottom when there is no bottom to start from. I am not making excuses for anyone, merely highlighting that it is not all black and white as it is currently being portrayed in vast sections of the media all with a vested interest in perpetuating the status quo. There are many, many factors at work here both social and economic none of which are being reported and worse, not being thought about. Therefore the repercussions will only be worse for everyone. As I said, we all lose.

"I am sure there will now follow an avalanche of exceptions"

I wonder why you're so sure of that, SouthernDave?

No-one wished anyone dead. I made the point that the world would be better off if they dropped dead, and I stand by that. Providing excuses and get-outs for regressives who refuse any aid in the form of education doesn't help either.

Mike

Whats wrong with minimum wage or less ............It's called starting at the bottom
I come from a long established east London family, we moved out a long time ago

It's because people make excuses for these oikes that they get away with it...........No one owes them a meal ticket or a comfortable life, frankly I have no time for them, but they will get away with it as they will have the professional apologists to stand up for them ..............

Da yoof's ave nuffing else to do

hmm, (generalising due to those rioters that I've seen in news items) I'm wondering where their next meals will be coming from as they're torching t€sc0s burger places and other large shops all over the place, am guessing their parents might be a bit miffed having to travel a long way to collect food.

Seems to me a lot of it could be down to 'no visible ladder' . Working people can't afford to live in london, so live out in the suburbs, so the centre is social housing with benefits or large houses and large salary, it makes the difference only seeing either end, but not the middle, no 'route map' ?!?



Hope you're still safe Nomada and any other Ishers who live in the affected cities

"so the centre is social housing with benefits"

Pardon me for quoting you, Snapdragon, and I mean no offence - but I had to giggle considering I read your post immediately after hearing that Manchester rioters had just burned down the social housing centre.

I am trying - trying but struggling - to understand the motivation for that one. Maybe they mistook it for a supermarket.

Mike

EDIT: Just an afterthought - not a single Waterstones store has been touched.

I'm sorry but I really don't care what the reasons are, there is no excuse for this criminality. Why do we need to 'listen' to communities in this way anyway? If they want to change things within their community then why not spend their time and energies doing something positive like charity work instead of smashing, looting and setting fire. I have friends in Bristol who have been affected and I worry about them.

Nomada, here's a for you. I hope you, and anyone else here who is affected, are OK.

Zoe

pelmetman wrote:

SouthernDave wrote: I wouldn't do them.

I assume you mean any kind of work ............It's a shame so many kids are born thinking life owes them a meal ticket, whats wrong with starting at the bottom .............I suppose its beneath them ................Funny thing is that's where they will find the bottom rung of the ladder
Nowt wrong with starting at the bottom, didn't do me any harm, and you learn a lot of wisdom along the way

Dave

Just a quick point about jobs. The kinds of jobs people will not take aren't always to do with work that's 'beneath' them, the problem I've been finding when looking for jobs lately is that they have wages that you just can't live on, either because they are low paid or because they're part time. Some of them take the pi$$. It just about what's practical. You could always do more than one job, but I've done that before and rushing from one job to another and juggling is exhausting. Plus with so many people going after the same job there's no guarantee that you'd get a second job to bring in a livable wage.

The only job I won't do now is call centre, any kind of insurance or finance. I'll quite happily clean toilets but I'll go hungry before I'd do that again.

That quick point ended up a whole paragraph, hmm.

MKG wrote:"I read your post immediately after hearing that Manchester rioters had just burned down the social housing centre.

Wow, just wow.

I can see this being used as an excuse for bringing in some incredibly restrictive laws. Any excuse will do. I still don't want to live in a police state. I've also learned that you can't rely on the police in a large event such as this. They actually fled at one point last night.

I dont care one bit about their 'reasons', there is absolutely no excuse for behaving like this. They shoulod be rounded up and shot! My son and daughter live in totally different areas - both affected by rioting. The riots on the Isle of Dogs is literally across the aprk from where my daughter lives. I have advised her to get out and go to her grandfather's which is easier for her to get to than to come home. And I have advised my son to keep away from Liverpool at all costs; he doesnt live there, but has to go on a regular basis.

There was more poverty and deprivation during the war and at other times; today, people on benefits have all the electrical gadgets you can think of. How dare they riot like this? It's nothing but an excuse to steal and do damage!

Im so angry about the whole thing - it's so unnecessary and there arent enough words to express it. IE I'm speechless - and seeing people making excuses for this imbecilic behaviour just makes me see RED!

'they're only people the samea s you and me' - qupoted from a post higher up the thread. NO, THEY MOST CERTAINLY ARE NOT. Dont include me in that rioting load of scum!

My daughter was in Birmingham last night when it started. The local radio reporter was out talking to people all night. In 10 hours he spoke to only 2 people who were there for a cause - the others were just looting.

The news is not reporting it accurately (why am I not surprised). One nasty aspect is that they targetted the gay areas in Birmingham and Manchester. Strangely that hasn't even been mentioned........... one minority attacking another cancels each other out in the media's eyes maybe?

I work just outside the city centre, and come 3pm people were getting jittery about getting home safely. It is affecting far more people than the news gives mention of

Our London office was closed early today and the staff told to be alert for messages about going in tomorrow. There was a heavy police presence between the office and the station, with helicopters overhead. The office is in Hoxton.

Did anyone see the two idiot girls interviewed on the news? Boy, talk about dumb! They were so inarticulate and illogical about why they were doing this, I wanted to slap them. are seriously pissing me off. The people looting Oddly enough there is a mix of people rioting, college and uni students and newly enlisted soldier were among some of those arrested apparently. It's not all people on benefits.

I've heard lots of sirens but they're rushing off elsewhere quickly. It's quiet right now. We tend to ignore sirens anyway as we live next door to a hospital.

Are there any disturbances near where you guys are? Hope not.