Selfsufficientish.com

Millymollymandy wrote:Trouble is it is really hard to know whether it is a false economy or not. How can you calculate how much your electric kettle/electric oven actually uses?

You would have to do some pretty intensive record keeping to come up with a proper answer to this. The thing about an oven, in particular, is that it will be thermostatically controlled, so won't be using energy all the time, even when it is in use. This is true of both gas and electric ovens, and the better insulated they are (ie, the less heat you can feel from outside the oven) and the less you open the door, the less energy they will consume.

In theory, nearly all the electricity used to boil a kettle of water is applied directly to the water, with very little going to waste (the element is surrounded by water, so the water is the first thing to absorb the heat). On the other hand, when you put a kettle on a gas ring, you are also heating some of the cooker, and lots of air, so a good deal of the heat from the flame is lost, and not heating the water at all.

But, you should also consider how wasteful it is to generate electricity in the first place. In nuclear France, this is going to be a whole issue quite appart from simple efficiency. In the UK and elsewhere, much of the electricity used to boil an electric kettle started off as gas anyway.

Unless you actually have a gas flow meter connected to the bottle, it's going to be hard to tell how much gas is used in boiling a kettle, or powering the oven, so a real comparison will be difficult. ATM, it is generally cheaper to use gas (even bottled gas), but that is not the same as saying it is more efficient (ie, that you are using less of the world's resouces). And as gas prices rise, who knows what will be the case in the future.

Wombat wrote:Much bigger M3, I think 47kg as Stew mentioned they are about 400 wide by about 1500 high!

Nev

Thank goodness for that! I think mine are 18kg. But then yours is powering an oven as well whereas mine is just the hob. I blame it on the Xmas puddings as that required 2 x 10 hours total cooking time!!!

Muddypause wrote:

Millymollymandy wrote:Trouble is it is really hard to know whether it is a false economy or not. How can you calculate how much your electric kettle/electric oven actually uses?

You would have to do some pretty intensive record keeping to come up with a proper answer to this. The thing about an oven, in particular, is that it will be thermostatically controlled, so won't be using energy all the time, even when it is in use. This is true of both gas and electric ovens, and the better insulated they are (ie, the less heat you can feel from outside the oven) and the less you open the door, the less energy they will consume.

In theory, nearly all the electricity used to boil a kettle of water is applied directly to the water, with very little going to waste (the element is surrounded by water, so the water is the first thing to absorb the heat). On the other hand, when you put a kettle on a gas ring, you are also heating some of the cooker, and lots of air, so a good deal of the heat from the flame is lost, and not heating the water at all.

But, you should also consider how wasteful it is to generate electricity in the first place. In nuclear France, this is going to be a whole issue quite appart from simple efficiency. In the UK and elsewhere, much of the electricity used to boil an electric kettle started off as gas anyway.

Unless you actually have a gas flow meter connected to the bottle, it's going to be hard to tell how much gas is used in boiling a kettle, or powering the oven, so a real comparison will be difficult. ATM, it is generally cheaper to use gas (even bottled gas), but that is not the same as saying it is more efficient (ie, that you are using less of the world's resouces). And as gas prices rise, who knows what will be the case in the future.

Thanks Muddy for this info. I guess the answer ( ) is to eat more salad and drink tap water!!!

Anyway, if and when the weather ever gets warm enough, I'll be cooking outside on my Aussie style barbie, burning spruce wood from a tree we felled last year which I can't/shouldn't use in my wood burner. Better than bonfiring it or carting it to the rubbish tip!

Hi folks,
this is an interesting thread.I use very little power(gas/electric)in my home,having made the usual alteration,low energy bulbs etc,I use oil lamps and candles at night,early morning.I dont have many hot drinks in the summer months.I use my woodburner to heat water in my kettle for drinks/washing up in autumn/winter.It is easy for me as there is only me to cater for.I use my electric shower once per day(5 mins) and treat myself to a soak on a saturday(gas heater)My energy bills are very manageable,but this would be offset by candles/oil etc.I agree with the whole,it is about doing a bit that makes a difference,that covers every aspect of being self sufficientish.At least 2 days a week are given over to collecting wood and sawing it up,but I enjoy doing so!
atb
ged 8)

ged.medland wrote:At least 2 days a week are given over to collecting wood and sawing it up,but I enjoy doing so!
atb
ged 8)

Now that's all about energy too, human energy! I am glad you enjoy doing this but my poor husband was at the end of his tether by the end of this last winter from spending so much time and energy chopping logs.

The last couple of months we have got better organised and we have nearly all our firewood for this coming winter stacked and split in advance and he has paid out for an electric hydraulic log splitter. We still have to bring in 4 sacks a day from the woodshed which isn't close to the house but that is nothing in comparison.

He was about ready to throw the whole thing in and move to a small modern insulated house!!! NOOOOOOOOOOO

Well 12 months on and, raw figures, were did about 7500kW last year, so there has been some improvement!

Nev

Ah, Nev, did you see my thread about how much I have saved by turning things off at the power point? 33% My power usage is way too high, but am working on it ... and 2 days ago I scored a new and free instantaneous gas hot water system, which is pretty cool, so I can lose the electric one which is a nightmare.

Yep! You are doing really well Cornelian.

The measure of kW per year doesn't tell the whole story either. Somthing which pushed the electricity bill up a bit was using the RC aircon to heat the living area a bit, but we used to use $70 odd worth of kero a month and used very little kero last year. This was a considerable saving in money and GHG but comes as a negative on the electricity bill.

Plus, while the other pair only have one room, it is electricity central!

Nev

Cornelian wrote:Ah, Nev, did you see my thread about how much I have saved by turning things off at the power point? 33% My power usage is way too high, but am working on it ... and 2 days ago I scored a new and free instantaneous gas hot water system, which is pretty cool, so I can lose the electric one which is a nightmare.

What about electric items that lose their settings if powered off? Things like TV's and VCR/DVR that have channel settings memorized.

UKBB

We have turned our TV/dvd VCR off at the wall and no problems when turned back on.......

Nev

Muddypause wrote:Unless you actually have a gas flow meter connected to the bottle, it's going to be hard to tell how much gas is used in boiling a kettle, or powering the oven, so a real comparison will be difficult. ATM, it is generally cheaper to use gas (even bottled gas), but that is not the same as saying it is more efficient (ie, that you are using less of the world's resouces). And as gas prices rise, who knows what will be the case in the future.

A great post. There is worse news on the use of gas, it isn't even as simple as connecting a meter up to the mains. To do it right you need to make corrections for your gas type not just bottled or mains but variation within the mains and also also atmospheric pressure. All of this is done for rating commercial catering appliances, I'm not sure if the same rules apply to domestic.

Generally we are all pretty bad at using with gas appliance efficiently. A lot of folk set the gas to maximum, ignore the pan size and as a result heat the kitchen rather than the contents of the pan.

The biggest and simplest difference you can make is picking the right ring, setting the flame under the pan and keeping a lid on it.

There are fast boil kettles for use on gas rings which are often used on boats. These kettles include a coil or heat exchanger in the base to maximise the transfer of heat to the water. When my electric kettle breaks I'm thinking of one of these although they are hideously expensive.