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Tigz, if I can just give some tough love... stop that damned bottle at night thing. Be prepared for 3 nights of shit, but offer only water at night. The lactose in milk can actually damage teeth unless you clean them after, and once you stop offering milk at night there's no reason for the littlun to wake you up any more.

Start by offering a bottle of water, then once you're over that hurdle offer an anyway up cup of water, then finally move to leaving anyway up cup of water by the bedside and take yourself out of the picture.

It might be rough for a few nights, but if you want any pointers on making the transition as painless as poss, just ask.

Once you're sleeping better you might pick up faster. Courage!

Hi Tigz. Sorry to hear you're still poorly. I'd noticed you weren't around here much being your usual chatty self! Hope you get better soon.

Wiz... thanks :) I appreciate the thought, and believe me we have tried so much. Loads of times we have tried giving water instead - which makes him MAD! (He has his mother's temper!)

We even spent a MISERABLE two whole weeks towards the end of last year not giving him a bottle at night - he didn't sleep (so we didn't), was crying SO much, after that we just decided it was cruel to him and went back to being up 5 minutes each night. Honestly, he was distraught and we just couldn't go on.

In recent months there have been quite a few nights where he's slept thro, so we think he's getting there. But if he's been under the weather, he just wakes for one bottle about 2/3am and we decided that we were just going to put up with that until he grew out of it naturally. I know there are issues about teeth etc, but we have weighed them up...

If you saw how upset he got... I think you'd understand. I am a huge fan of the Baby Whisperer, the late Tracy Hogg, who gave us this idea, but this part of it hasn't worked for us.... and it's our decision after all. I agree with you and wish it could work.

I'm with HW on this one...we gave water to no2 son when he kept waking up, he was eating a good varied diet with milk during the day -it didn't do any harm. Maximus was a miserable little monster for a couple of nights- but eventually he gave up as water wasn't worth waking up for! But I know being a parent a tough job (noone ever gave me a manual!) and seeing them in such a state is heart breaking, but sometimes..........

good luck
kind thoughts
Deb

I KNOW! But for two weeks... WE physically couldn't go on, and it was driving us insane. We were all exhausted. We felt like we'd failed him because we'd given up after all that fighting... but we really had no choice. It was making us all miserable. So it didn't work for us. Simple as that. If anyone here would like to look after Josh until he gives in, you're more than welcome.

Jonathan won't drink water... hates it... always has. We've tried putting a slice of lemon/orange in, and called it H2O or corporation pop, adams ale...etc... all things that worked with my other children but not with Jonathan.

We give full cream as main drink... and either skimmed or watered down at other times... He likes juice but don't give him that unless it's with his meal. I've just bought some fruit teas to try - any other suggestions?? Perhaps we should be talking about this in the Eco-Parenting section?!

Hey, one thing you COULD try that will help a little... instead of a bottle, give him a cup. It's not quite as comforting as a teat to suck on but then that's all part and parcel of the waking isn't it.

I'm steering clear of the 'children sleeping through the night' debate - outside my realm of experience I'm very happy to say. But I will contribute my twopennyworth to the general health discussion:

For the past 2yrs I've been struggling with CFS/ME. A specialist nurse told me I'd probably made myself susceptible to it by never previously giving my body time to recover after illness. I'd always returned to school & then work as soon as I started to feel better.

It is important you give your body time to recover & treat yourself with a little TLC. With a child of that age I know it's not easy, but you really do deserve it.

(I know I said it was outside my realm of experience, but I did work in a orphanage in N Africa for a while - just didn't have to do the through the night stuff with the younger children ).

Sorry Tigz if you thought I was being preachy, I didn't mean too-the intended encouraging tone of the post didn't really come through. Son no1 once said to me "I'm thirsty, not dirty" when offered water so I can't pretend to have all the answers. I think if someone came up with portable soundproof boxes you could hire, every parent in the land would use them at least once! maybe that could be the source of my first £million!

kind thoughts
Deb

My daughter had the same problem,she would wake and scream for a bottle,we did the replacing it with water thing but she still kept waking,even for the water.In the end the OH and I camped out in the lounge and denied her even the water,it took two weeks of her screaming the place down to get out of the habit but for our own sanity we just had to let her get on with it.The relief we both felt when she finally slept though was immense! She was also a lot happier having had a full nights sleep.When we had number three the rule was set in stone,NO BOTTLES IN THE COT/BED! Fingers crossed,hes been as good as gold! You cant expect to look after everyone else when your tired and feel like poo yourself.

nick wrote:a 'recipe' that I was given by a friend is:in a clean jar place 1 onion chopped, 2 cloves crushed garlic, drizzle 1-2 tablespoons of honey over top. put on lid and place in fridge overnight.

You can make that with brown sugar, too, if you don't like honey - I suppose molasses would be even better, due to additional minerals. It's very soothing for your throat, too.

I tend to pick up any infection doing the rounds when I am stressed. Now I am in the enviable (?) position of having only myself to please (plus my boss ). which means that if I feel like it, I go to bed straight after work... I know it's different once you've got family. The not-sleeping-through thing I know very well from my boss; his son is now almost three, and still needs his daddy most nights. He now regrets that they ever started staying with him until he gets to sleep again, fetching him drinks every so often etc. And he (dad) also picks up every bug in the vicinity - which I think is due to him not getting regular nights. I suppose they'll all grow out of it.

glennie, don't worry, hon, I really didn't get upset, I was just trying to show you just how hard it had been on us to try and let him scream it out. Anyway, luckily we never did the stay in his room til he slept, so right from an early age he's been able to get to sleep on his own. He has a night time routine, toast and a drink, bath, book, song and then put in his cot and he gets himself to sleep. Unless he's poorly or something.

He does drink water during the day - or milk/juice from a cup. We feel that he only wants milk at night because he's hungry. After he was poorly a few weeks ago he woke in the night and demanded toast and milk because he was so hungry. Luckily that was just the one night!

I guess it's trial and error with them all and we each make our own compromises for our families. My friend's little boy slept in between them until he was too and now he sleeps next to them in an open sided cot. She believed it was vital to his emotional stability and still has to lie with him until he sleeps (he's almost 3). He doesn't go to bed until 9/10pm! Josh's bedtime is 7/7.30pm - so, each to their own I guess. What works for them would NOT work for us.

I guess broken sleep has affected my health somewhat... but some people only get 4 hours a night... so it's individual again!

Anyway, out into the garden this weekend. I am feeling a bit stronger, but will be doing the afternoon nap thing which I love... Thanks for all your thoughts, I cannot wait until summer when I can eat my veggies from the garden, I just KNOW they'll do me some good. I have seedlings coming up in the greenhouse, and the weather is warming up, so I feel better mentally!!!

Shall I stop waffling now? Um... {sheepish grin}... OK

Don't know what happened here - sometimes this thing seems to send something off before I'm quite finished with it, and then I send it off again... It does have a will of it's own!

Tigerhair wrote:... but some people only get 4 hours a night... so it's individual again!

That was Maggy Thatcher! She was said to exist on that little sleep. We can't all be like her...

I think everyone is right... it's such an individual thing.

We have the problem of getting Jonathan to go to bed... once he's there he's generally (touch wood) ok. We get him there earlier now, but for a while it was 9pm which is FAR FAR too late as it means that we don't have an evening to allow us to relax. One of us lies with J until he's asleep... I had cracked that when David was working in Herefordshire and he was just going to sleep on his own but once daddy got back the rules changed again.

Ahhh well.... they all grow out of it in the end don't they

Back to the original message.......

I went down with a vicious virus back in November, I was completely wiped out took me all of December to get back on my feet having had to get antibiotics for a chest infection. Prior to this I have not even had a cold for almost 8 years, we started taking cod liver oil capsules 1000mg to help our joints at that time and it seems to have well protected us against most other things.

Since November I have had the virus raise its head twice, once causing us to have to cancel a long awaited trip to Paris the morning we were due to leave. ..... I spoke to our GP and she told me that it can take anything up to 12 months to clear a virus from your system and during that time you should get as much rest as possible and eat a good diet (which we do anyway) the main advice seems to be patience...... you will begin to feel better eventually.............you need to give your body time to recover naturally.