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ina wrote:As far as I know, for "free range" they must have access to the outside

Quite right. Unfortunately "access" is not defined, and a thousand-bird house with a few small popholes meets the criterion. What can happen then is that the braver dominant ones venture out but need go no further, so establish and defend territory right outside the pophole, thus effectively blocking it.

Battery farming may be due to be abolished in the UK shortly, but here the only meaningful welfare standard is "organic" for which the supermarkets charge a premium out of all proportion to the increase paid to the producer, making "organic free range" almost as expensive as beef. It's a much better idea to set aside a day to visit some local farms and have a look at their facilities.

Debeaking is done to prevent cannibalism and feather pecking, which are a problem in stressed birds (although can also be caused by boredom or low protein diet). Beak rings are an alternative, work well, and are easily removed or left to fall off when they wear through (about 4 months).

How do beak rings work? How do they feed?

Like this... it stops the beak from closing fully, but not so much that they have trouble foraging. They hate it for about 60 seconds because the ends of the ring sit in their nostrils, but once they've had a dance round they forget about it. It's a bit like collaring a cat. Mind you when mud or whatnot gets on the ring they have to wipe it off on the grass!

I can't see terribly well in the photo. I imagined it going around top and bottom beak and they wouldn't be able to open their mouths! But now that I know, how do they breathe if it fits in their nostrils???

It's a C-shape, which goes around the upper part of the beak with the two ends in the nostril openings. It pinches a bit at first, just like you or I wearing an ear cuff or a clip-on earring, hence the head shaking when you first put it on. The ring doesn't completely block the opening, it just sits in the dent where the beak is shaped for the openings - mind you, if you don't have it on some soft tissue they scrape it off too easily.

What can I tell you - they don't seem bothered by it once it's on, but fitting it is like giving a pill to a cat!

hedgewizard wrote: What can I tell you - they don't seem bothered by it once it's on, but fitting it is like giving a pill to a cat!

A lot of fun then? Cheers, thanks for explaining.

hedgewizard wrote:

ina wrote:As far as I know, for "free range" they must have access to the outside

Quite right. Unfortunately "access" is not defined, and a thousand-bird house with a few small popholes meets the criterion. What can happen then is that the braver dominant ones venture out but need go no further, so establish and defend territory right outside the pophole, thus effectively blocking it.

Battery farming may be due to be abolished in the UK shortly, but here the only meaningful welfare standard is "organic" for which the supermarkets charge a premium out of all proportion to the increase paid to the producer, making "organic free range" almost as expensive as beef. It's a much better idea to set aside a day to visit some local farms and have a look at their facilities.

Debeaking is done to prevent cannibalism and feather pecking, which are a problem in stressed birds (although can also be caused by boredom or low protein diet). Beak rings are an alternative, work well, and are easily removed or left to fall off when they wear through (about 4 months).

Thanks for clearing that up, when I wrote in my earlier post that free range could still involve hens being cooped up together in a barn, the situation you describe is what I meant.

It's really terrible that hens are kept in such conditions for eggs. I watched Jimmys Farm and I think he's dropped another clanger looking at this from a commercial point of view.

Yes, it's great to rescue battery hens, but the reason they have been taken out of the battery farms is that they are not commercialy viable any more. It costs more to feed them that you would get back for eggs.

What I do find most disturbing is how broiler birds are reared.
Here is a link to a rather disturbing film made by Compassion in World Farming regarding broiler hens. It's not the farmers fault. He's just making a living. It's the supermarkets fault for demanding cheap birds and the consumers fault for buying them.

http://www.ciwf.org/publications/video/ ... eYoung.wmv

Once you've watched it let me know if you'll be buying 2 chickens for a fiver down at your local supermarket next weekend.

I'm having roast chicken for dinner today. It will be the first I've had in a couple of years because I can't afford the £7 - £9 it costs for a free range one. I found an independant butcher who sells home grown, farmyard chicken for £4.50 each. I'm really looking forward to it.

Well done Hepsibah, we had to stop eating chicken for that exact reason. I'll have to start looking around again, but I'm sort of resigned to having to keep our own "Growers" in a year or two.

Henut, it's not entirely true... it's no longer commercially viable to keep those hens in battery conditions, but usually with better treatment they come back on lay once they've been out and about for a while. They may lay for six months, they may lay for two years (but it's unlikely because of the hybrids used for battery farms). I think Jimmy's fallen fowl (!) of the fact that flocks tend to exhibit group behaviour even with their laying habits. It might be possible for him to break this by using a couple of dozen "dummy" eggs, which has worked for me in the past.

The other factor that might have them off lay is that battery farms are lit internally for most of the day, whereas his little caravan isn't. The babes' pineal glands may be interpreting this as winter. A lamp on a battery and timer to extend the daylight might be needed at first, then reducing slowly until back on normal daylight.

T***o had organic chickens at around £5.80 each... the label even had a 'meet one of our farmers' on it... it was scottish grown and butchered (an improvement at least) - the farmer featured was an aberdeenshire one... which on the face of it sounds great... but it didn't say that the chicken inside the wrapper was actually from that farmer.

I'd also be interested to know what they are paying the farmer... not much I imagine!! I'd really love to know.

I certainly won't eat anything other than organic chicken... freerange is fine if I know where the chicken has been kept, but freerange on a supermarket label doesn't mean a right lot.

Shirley - which farmer was it? I know two organic chicken producers in Aberdeenshire - one close to here. They are extending their farm because there is such a high demand!

I think it was Ally Mitchell... does that ring a bell??

But organic doesn't necessarily mean free range! And neither does free range necessarily mean organic!

I only buy the most expensive chickens (called Label Rouge in France). If I can get them for less than €4 a kilo I buy them. Usually they are more expensive than that. A chicken has to do us two for four meals to make it affordable.

Label Rouge means no antibiotics, they are killed at a later age and there are more chickens per m2 than the other 'labels' or non-labels. It still isn't great but we can't afford any other meat much except for pork (Although that's because it is the equivalent of intensive battery raised too ). However there is no labelling for pork, so no choice.

After our first Rhode Island Reds were assigned to the pot, my Dad bought a load of battery hens because they were shutting down the farm. (this was when we were kids) They stayed in the back of the hen house for over two weeks and then started becoming confident - they went from scrawny featherless birds to healthy ones in about 3 months. They laid well and tasted good once they ceased to be good layers.