Selfsufficientish.com

Thanks for letting us know, I missed this one, will have to bookmark for another day

Bugger! I can't get it either!

Anyone out there who could burn me a copy and post? I'd pay postage!

Nev

I've downloaded as a torrent via a link that was posted on Neeps - http://www.mininova.org/tor/2313068

Wombat wrote:Bugger! I can't get it either!

Anyone out there who could burn me a copy and post? I'd pay postage!

Nev

If you can wait until the beginning of May.... I didn't know about this programme but my brother emailed me about it - and told me that it was being discussed on this forum !!! I don't read everything here - anyway he has it recorded and is going to download it onto a DVD for me - but won't be posting it as I'm going over there after easter.

So if no-one else comes to your rescue Nev I'll send it to you!

treehugger have done a update on their article the other day

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/03 ... ulture.php

She also has a article in the daily mail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -town.html

But seriously folks - is this forest garden thing really workable? 3 years ago I started to convert the bottom of my garden from a 25-year jungle to an allotment style garden. The first thing I did was to chop the huge trees down to provide some sunshine, and I have spent the last 3 years digging the weeds and brambles out. There was absolutely nothing worth eating growing in it until I embarked on this mad quest, and the remaining weeds are a constant invasion force. The soil seems pretty healthy though. It seems to me that unless you clear a sizeable area, then the forest will re-invade within a year and you'll be back where you started. - i.e. it may be low-fossil-energy input but its a high-maintenance option. I can't believe their days working figures. Can you?

Yes, because it works with the principles of nature, not against them. But also these high yield forest gardens don't happen by accident though... every plant is picked for it's exact qualities. I think that is where there is alot more learning to be done to understand the perfect mix.

I hope to learn more myself and bring more of the principles of permaculture into my garden, though many of us already practice companion planting, planting for beneficial insects, using 'weeds' for things, etc.... so it is just a continuation of that surely?

can't see it either...

dave45 wrote:But seriously folks - is this forest garden thing really workable? 3 years ago I started to convert the bottom of my garden from a 25-year jungle to an allotment style garden. The first thing I did was to chop the huge trees down to provide some sunshine, and I have spent the last 3 years digging the weeds and brambles out. There was absolutely nothing worth eating growing in it until I embarked on this mad quest, and the remaining weeds are a constant invasion force. The soil seems pretty healthy though. It seems to me that unless you clear a sizeable area, then the forest will re-invade within a year and you'll be back where you started. - i.e. it may be low-fossil-energy input but its a high-maintenance option. I can't believe their days working figures. Can you?

To think that forest gardening will provide the same crop yield (albeit from different crops - nuts instead of cereals for example) with a fraction of the effort would be pretty naive. If anyone has any doubt, you're welcome to come and help harvest, shuck, shell, peel, and mill the nuts from our 100-odd almond trees and compare it with the effort involved in harvesting our wheat. The nuts are far more labour-intensive.

Permaculture is a great idea if you're happy to just float around your garden collecting enough for a meal, but it's no replacement for agriculture.

Millymollymandy wrote:

Wombat wrote:Bugger! I can't get it either!

Anyone out there who could burn me a copy and post? I'd pay postage!

Nev

If you can wait until the beginning of May.... I didn't know about this programme but my brother emailed me about it - and told me that it was being discussed on this forum !!! I don't read everything here - anyway he has it recorded and is going to download it onto a DVD for me - but won't be posting it as I'm going over there after easter.

So if no-one else comes to your rescue Nev I'll send it to you!

Would you mind sending me a copy too? We (my husband and I) badly want our church and our parents to see this program. It's fantastic, and a real wake up call. We were already moving in this direction, but now we're much more committed than before. If you are willing (or anyone else who has it recorded, of course ) please PM me. I'm more than happy to reimburse all expenses for it. I'd happily buy it from the BBC if only they were selling it!!

Torrent is available on UKnova at http://www.uknova.com/wsgi/torrent/view/73795

You need to sign up, but it's a fairly quick download (if you have high speed)

Certainly worth watching. Wish I could show it to some people here in Canada

Jerry

carolinew wrote:

Millymollymandy wrote:

Wombat wrote:Bugger! I can't get it either!

Anyone out there who could burn me a copy and post? I'd pay postage!

Nev

If you can wait until the beginning of May.... I didn't know about this programme but my brother emailed me about it - and told me that it was being discussed on this forum !!! I don't read everything here - anyway he has it recorded and is going to download it onto a DVD for me - but won't be posting it as I'm going over there after easter.

So if no-one else comes to your rescue Nev I'll send it to you!

Would you mind sending me a copy too? We (my husband and I) badly want our church and our parents to see this program. It's fantastic, and a real wake up call. We were already moving in this direction, but now we're much more committed than before. If you are willing (or anyone else who has it recorded, of course ) please PM me. I'm more than happy to reimburse all expenses for it. I'd happily buy it from the BBC if only they were selling it!!

Yes gladly, are you in the UK? I'll have to ask my brother to download it twice onto DVD (that's if Nev still wants a copy). How much does a blank DVD cost as I don't have a clue? I hadn't thought of that cost, was just thinking of postage. Trouble is if I post it to you whilst I'm in England then I'll have to go out and buy an envelope (jiffy bag?) instead of just using whatever I have lying around here - usually plenty of envelopes/padding I can recycle. Unless my mum has something as she's been re-using envelopes for years (even back before green and Ish became the 'norm' and I used to think she was a bit of a cheapskate!!! )

It would of course make sense if someone in the UK who already has this recorded sent you a copy, so please let me know if you don't get it before I go off to Angleterre just after Easter!

contadino wrote:Permaculture is a great idea if you're happy to just float around your garden collecting enough for a meal, but it's no replacement for agriculture.

But I thought that was the point of the programme - what can replace high-energy-input agriculture? Forest gardening may be sustainable, but is it of any general use? or just some niche specialist thing for certain areas or botanists with specialist plants?

dave45 wrote:

contadino wrote:Permaculture is a great idea if you're happy to just float around your garden collecting enough for a meal, but it's no replacement for agriculture.

But I thought that was the point of the programme - what can replace high-energy-input agriculture? Forest gardening may be sustainable, but is it of any general use? or just some niche specialist thing for certain areas or botanists with specialist plants?

Why do fields, which 50 years ago were ploughed with 14hp tractors, now need 200+ hp tractors to work them?

The answer is that the constant use of pesticides and herbicides has killed the soil. It's all explained very well in John Humphrys The Great Food Gamble.

In answer to your question "what can replace it", it needs two significant changes:

1. A change of huge monocultural farms into much smaller, mixed farms. Every farm should keep livestock, have a market garden, and grow cereals because they all interact into an integrated, low energy farming model.

2. A migration back to more organic farming, and focus on soil condition. Not the organic farming that costs an arm and a leg in fees for the Soil Association, but organic farming that means harmful chemicals aren't regularly used.

One thing said on the program has had me thinking: that it takes 10 calories of energy on the modern farm to produce 1 calorie of food. Is that an extreme, or average? If it applies to all crops, then bio-fuels are a big lie.