Easing into vegetarianism

[kimmysmum]

I am now ready to get off the meat wagon so to speak> If anyone could give me any hints, ideas tried and true for the healthy alternative I would be ever greatful. I have some wonderful recipes so far and looked at the Osso Bucco we had the other evening and gave it to my son and my partner couldn't stomach it as I have been slowly thinking myself off eating meat. I shall still include some fish and occasionally some Organic Chicken but ONLY occasionally. So any comments are eagerky awaited.
Regards
Rhonda(Kimmysmum)

[Clara]

Our diet has become mainly veggie due to having no fridge/freezer, so we are going through the process of finding our favourite veggie recipes. Mr Clara always has been a far more avid meat eater than me, so he is on a steeper learning curve, here´s a recipe we really like, it´s really versatile as you can use whatever greens are in season.
All measurements are US, it´s from Yoga Journal.

Cabbage (or greens gratin)

1 large yellow onion
4 tablespoons butter plus 2 teaspoons
1 head savoy cabbage (equivalent to about 2lbs of greens)
1tsp salt
1tsp black pepper
1tbsp all-purpose flour
1cup milk
4tbsp grated cheese
3tbsp dry breadcrumbs

1. Cut onion in half lengthways, then slice thinly
2. Melt 4tbsp butter in large heavy bottom pan with tightly fitting lid, at med-high heat. Add onions and cover, stir occasionally, until almost dissolving.
3. Cut cabbage into thin slices and add, fitting it all in the pan may be difficult, but it´ll wilt considerably. Cover and cook for 10-15 minutes until wilted. Remove cover and continue to cook, stirring until the cabbage is soft and translucent, another 10-15 minutes.
4. preheat oven to 400F
5. grease a baking dish with 1tsp butter
6. sprinkle salt, pepper and flour over the cabbage and stir. Increase the heat to high, stirring still, then add the milk, a little at a time, continuing to stir, creating a sauce for the veggies.
7. When it is thickened in about 5 minutes, spread the mixture into the baking dish. Mix cheese and breadcrumbs together and spread over the top (we usually add some pumpkin seeds here too). Dot with remaining butter and bake until the top is crusty and golden and the edges are bubbling, about 20 minutes.

Enjoy! I´ll post some more when I can be bothered to more typing!

May I also suggest Madhur Jaffrey´s World Vegetarian as a good cookbook, she has introduced us to so many new ingredients (grains in particular), really good for getting that variety and necessary nutrition from a vegetarian diet. No pics on the downside though.

Clara x.

[kimmysmum]

Thankyou Clara for that it was very kind of you I have been researching some vege meals and have found some more nice recipes I will post some over the next few days.
I don't think I will ever get Mr Kimmysmum to become vege but he is very ill and needs the Iron and protien from the meat. I know I could replace it with a veg diet but he is set in his ways. As for my son well there is some hope there.

[Martin]

Having tried vegetarianism for a while, I don't think it's a step to be taken lightly - despite having tried to "do it properly" and ensuring that I wasn't missing any vital nutrients, inside three months I had become like the caricatures - pale, weak as a kitten, and generally feeling washed out all the time. On the advice of my acupuncturist I restarted eating meat, and rapidly recovered - the alternative medical view being that "it suits some people, not others" - it really didn't suit me!
Which leads me onto my main concern - I accept that many people can live long and healthy lives as vegetarians, but veganism is downright dangerous
(children breast fed by a strict vegan often suffer dreadful developmental difficulties, from which they never recover due to the lack of vital nutrients) - I think you should be extremely careful what you feed growing kids!

[kimmysmum]

Yes Martin I hear what you are saying and I will be doing it slowly. I don't enjoy meat very much and as I change as a person I feel guilty and sometimes sick in the stomach when eating meat. Also if I see a bit of fat or grisle I will not eat the rest of the meat. I even as I type this feel a little yucky in the tum shall we say. So I think that I will be happy as a vegetarian I will still enjoy milk, Cheese and fresh eggs from my beloved chooks also I will still eat some fish and occasionally Organic free range chicken. (But not my own). So slowly does it and off I go on another adventure

[Martin]

Having been in farming, I can fully understand and sympathise with people who are horrified by "factory farming" - I agree totally with that, much of the meat available is produced using cruel practices, and in the case of poultry, a shedload of pharmaceuticals to keep them alive in the appalling conditions as well
On the other hand, I live out in the sticks, and walk the dogs through fields full of sheep and cattle, who live a good natural life - without us meat eaters, the countryside would be a sad and lonely place!
I would also dispute the claims of "healthier" - we evolved to eat meat, our teeth and alimentary canal are designed for it - certainly many people eat far too much of it, and often what they eat is factory-farmed and hence high in "bad" fats, organic is the way to go!

[Clara]

Having tried vegetarianism for a while, I don't think it's a step to be taken lightly - despite having tried to "do it properly" and ensuring that I wasn't missing any vital nutrients, inside three months I had become like the caricatures - pale, weak as a kitten, and generally feeling washed out all the time. On the advice of my acupuncturist I restarted eating meat, and rapidly recovered - the alternative medical view being that "it suits some people, not others" - it really didn't suit me!
Which leads me onto my main concern - I accept that many people can live long and healthy lives as vegetarians, but veganism is downright dangerous
(children breast fed by a strict vegan often suffer dreadful developmental difficulties, from which they never recover due to the lack of vital nutrients) - I think you should be extremely careful what you feed growing kids!

You´re in good company Martin, the Dalai Lama eats meat for the same reasons!

However, I have to disagree with you about veganism and BFing - I´m virtually vegan and I´m BFing, my 9 month old daughter has never been ill in her life, is average weight and is reaching her developmental milestones in better than to be expected time (not that I put this down to my diet). I know plenty of people who are "proper" vegans with perfectly healthy babies.

There have been a couple of high profile cases of babies of vegans dying from malnourishment, though if you look into these it´s not just because they were vegan but because they were stupid and dogmatic about it and failed to act responsibly when their babies lost weight. Differences are easier to point out in these cases, but children of omnivorous families die of malnutrition too, that´s usually because they too have lacked common sense.

We are, afterall, just sophisticated monkeys - and most monkeys are vegan. We just learnt how to take advantage of animal products.

I don´t have a problem with an individual´s choices or feelings on the matter. And as far as being healthier goes, well we make our choices on what seems best for us - I feel better without meat, others don´t.

[Martin]

It's a risk I wouldn't take! I'm afraid we'll have to differ on forcing a child to eat a deeply unnatural diet - if you're of mature years, then what you do to yourself is free choice, but to visit it on a child is to my mind taking food faddism to dangerous extremes. From my understanding of veganism, the only way to maintain health is have to take strictly vegan food supplements which are flown in from California...........which is hardly natural!

[Clara]

I´m not "forcing" anything on my DD, all parents make choices for their kids that others would take differently. I´m not endangering my child´s health, please tone down the language.

You had a bad experience with vegetarianism, so you took what was the right course of action for you, as I said each to their own. Human experience is all shades of grey and so long as we have the commonsense to use our eyes and our brain rather than adhere to ANY dogma regarding what we feel is correct, then our children won´t suffer.

[Martin]

from my reading on the subject, your child is probably lucky - Mum has probably eaten properly for the first years of her life, and still has reserves of essential nutrients - it can take 10-20 years to lose them all
Believe me, I bit my tongue, and moderated my response, my true feeling is "poor little thing - in need of care and protection" - you don't play russian roulette with a child's development for a silly and unnatural fad!

[Annpan]

Cor blimey this is all getting a bit personal.

Clara pointed to being 'virtually' vegan, I am sure that lots of people throughout history have chosen not to kill to eat, and perhaps that there are months when there is little milk or eggs for whatever reason. As long as you raise children with a balanced diet you are not doing them any damage (pulses and fresh veg contain most nutrients that you need)

When it comes to the healthy developement of our children we all try our best and the majority of mums that I know have had thoughts about what they have done and when - I striped paint off of an old chest without knowing I was pregnant I had a glass of champagne on Christmas day, the day before I found out I was pregnant- does this make me guilty of damaging my child?
After having had it drummed into me that breastfeeding is the only way a responible mother would feed their baby I nearly killed myself in the first 2 weeks of my daughters life because I was pushing my body to do something that I physically could not do (I won't go into details PM me if you want to know) Does it make me a bad mother because I did not Breast-feed?

There are children in the western world who are suffering malnutritian because parents believe that you need meat in every meal think that it is suitable that children eat McFood, fish fingers, dino-bites, etc at every meal, every day.

Some people need educated as to what is a varied and balanced diet, Clara is obviously not one of them.

To return to the original post... try felafels OH is a sucker for them and he usually doesn't go for 'vegan' or 'vegetarian' food

[Clara]

Please reference what you are saying, my understanding (as a healthcare practitioner) is that very few vitamins and mineral are capable of being stored in the body for long and not for anything like that long, which is why RDA guidelines are issued. BTW I was pretty much fed processed crap as a child.

My point was that all parents have to make decisions for their children, I am no more "forcing" my diet on my child than a meateater forces their diet on on their children. In my particular circumstances, as I don´t have the capability to store meat safely, I think this is the right decision.

As far as "natural" diets are concerned, that is a myth. The only food truly intended for human consumption is breast milk, beyond that (unless you believe in some higher power) no food is designed for us - it´s all been trial and error. Is it deadly? Does it make me sick? Do I like it? We have the ability (but not necessity) to eat meat as part of this adaption to the world we found ourselves evolving in. Agriculture in any sense is not "natural", it too is an adaption, are you suggesting we should be hunter/gatherers? In this day and age therefore, diet is a choice based personal preferences and sometimes ethics.

India´s current population is around 1 billion, 95% ish are Hindu (and therefore mostly vegetarian and eating very little dairy). Some of those are Jain and are vegan. Not exactly a recipe for malnutrition and instant death then?

[Clara]

Some people need educated as to what is a varied and balanced diet, Clara is obviously not one of them.

Please explain, that seems a little personal - have I said something to directly upset you?

I´m not ranting about BFing BTW.

[Annpan]

Clara, I think you are taking me the wrong way... sorry. I was saying you obviously know what you are talking about and that it sounds to me that you are a great Mum( you are not the one that needs educated). I don't necessarily think that you are ranting about BF... it is THE best way to feed a baby I would never argue against that.

I really wasn't trying to offend anyone... I am going to return to my post and re-read it to see, I must have worded it wrongly... sorry.




OK having re-read my entry I again appologise if it was taken the wrong way. I was defending you Clara (although it is obvious you don't need my 'help' )
My point was more that some people... usually people who aren't parents, think that we can protect our babies from all the evils that the world might throw their way, whether that baby is in the womb or being nursed.
Martin obviously believes that a vegan diet is unsuitable for a nursing mother, others would suggest that a diet containing meat could be damaging, we are bombarded with 'advice' of what to eat, possitions to sleep in, what toxins we might inhale, and to what result... the same proportion of children grow up with learning difficulties and the mother spends her life blaming herself for whatever she did.

Does that explain it a little better?

[Clara]

Clara, I think you are taking me the wrong way... sorry. I was saying you obviously know what you are talking about and that it sounds to me that you are a great Mum( you are not the one that needs educated). I don't necessarily think that you are ranting about BF... it is THE best way to feed a baby I would never argue against that.

I really wasn't trying to offend anyone... I am going to return to my post and re-read it to see, I must have worded it wrongly... sorry.

I guess I must have had my defences up - deeply embarrassesd and truly sorry

I love falafels too, do you have any easy recipe?

How about nutroast - a bit ´70s but you can make this into rissoles (how retro) too!

1 med onion
1oz butter or oil
8oz mixed nuts (I use a lot of almonds and walnuts, but then that´s what I have masses of! Add some pumpkin seeds too)
4oz breadcrumbs
1/2 pt veg stock or water
2tsp yeast extract (I use tahini instead)
mixed herbs and salt and pepper to taste.

Chop onions and saute in the oil til transparent. Grind nuts (or buy ground nuts) in coffee grinder or liquidizer. Heat stock and yeast extract to boiling point. Combine all ingredients and mix well - mixture will be fairly slack. Turn into shallow greased baking dish, level and sprinkle with extra breadcrumbs and bake at 180C for 30 minutes until golden brown.