Hello folks

[Elderflower]

Helo, I`m new. I`m really pleased to find a self sufficientish site. We`ve down shifted from working for money to trying to grow our own food on our allotment and being as green as possible. (Okay, we`ve got a pension to live on as well!) But we live in a semi-rural semi and there`s no way we could raise the £300K to buy a smallholding or rural cottage with big garden - so we remain -ish. It`s upset me on some occasions in other sites to hear people like me hated as `townies` so I hope this site will be tolerant of people who can`t go the whole hog - as it were - -
Looking forward to logging on and having an `ish chat!

[Andy Hamilton]

Hello there Elderflower

Of course townies are welcome. I am sorry to hear that you felt unwelcome on other sites. We can't all live in the countryside there would be none left if we did. I live in a small flat in the center of Bath. So I am on the ish side of things. In fact so are all the people who have written for us. Dave lives in oxford and has an allotment (as I do) and a small back yard. Nev lives in Sydney and has a garden. Jackie has two allotments and not sure about mike. Yep none of us have country residence. So welcome, I think you have found the right place.

[Emma]

Welcome townie.

I come from South London and am always welcome on here it is a lurvely haven for us townies

[Wombat]

Yep!

I believe that we townies have a lot to contribute in discussions the self sufficient (ish) way of life. Andy's point is a telling one, if everyone moved to the countryside, there would be none left.

Here in Australia it might look like we have plenty of land but 90% of it is desert

We need to start making the cities sustainable and the people who access and use the information on this site are at the forefront of this move!

So "welcome" from me too!

[Elderflower]

Thanks for making me feel welcome! Actually, although we don`t live in the actual countryside we can be a bit greener because we don`t need to drive a car. It`s good to be in walking distance of doctor/library/allotment etc. Perhaps a small country market town would be the best of both worlds but the ones in Derbyshire are incredibly expensive - my husband Derek`s family are originally from Wiltshire, where his father & grandfathers were smallholders/shepherds. We recently went to look at his grandad`s cottage (a tied farm cottage in his day) and it was incredibly posh with new thatch and a porsche parked on the drive. Apparently, cottages like that go for about £500K+. Back to our roots? Don`t fink so!

[jennywren]

Hi Elderflower
I think you've broached an interesting discussion point here. As another poster pointed out, if we all went to live in the countryside there wouldn't be any left. Nor would it be the most efficient use of the land.
If everyone tried to make/grow everything they needed they would use up a lot more space/resources/effort than a sensible approach of sharing or bartering whatever it is you're particularly good at. For example, a friend of yours might be good at rearing sheep, while you might be good at weaving. He needs land, but you don't (or not as much).
In some ways, attempting to be totally self-sufficient is wrong headed. We should be trying to use as little land as we can to allow wildlife to flourish.

[Andy Hamilton]

Just got the train back across a stretch of England and I was thinking about the use of land. Most gardens seemed to consist of a patch of grass and that was about it. I was over in Romania a few years back and quite the opposite was true, every garden was stacked full of vegetables growing. People even walked cattle out of villages to graze. There also seemed to be a bit of bartering system going on, people swapping cheese for sweetcorn etc , it was lovely to see.

Although there does seem to be a shift in peoples mentalities here, many of my age group (early 30's) are getting allotments, brewing there own and managing what they have with a more ecological mind set. So we might see a few changes over the coming years. The reality is that we will have to change, we can't carry on sustaining ourselves the way we have been for the last century.

[Wombat]

G'Day All,

The point about if everyone moved to the country there wouldn't be any country left is fair enough and I believe that we need to make the cities more sustainable (pardon the buzz word). Andy's point is equally valid here. If I catch a train into the city (Sydney) you see large amounts of backyards that are bare or have junk etc in them. Our Mediterranean and Asian immigrants tend to do the best with their land but some Australians look down on them for doing that. We need to get a turn around in attitude so that growing your own becomes a positive thing.

In my experience this is considerably easier to say than it is to do!

(G'Day Andy, good to see you back)

Wombat

[Elderflower]

About growing in our gardens. I used to teach in a school in a `disadvantaged` area where there was a lot of poverty and unemployment. Many of the kids were malnourished in some way, either sickly/skinny or pasty/chubby. Thing is - most of their meals seemed to consist of over-processed convenience food whilst all the houses on the estate had really big back gardens.
The only food grown around there was in the school garden by my enthusiastic band of garden-clubbers.
Having said that, there`s precious little food grown on our owner-occupied street. A lot of decking and block paving though.
While I`m ranting about school, my grandson brought home the ingredient list for his latest cookery lesson. To make an apple pie he had to bring a pack of frozen pastry and a tin of pie filling. Aaaaagh!

[Andy Hamilton]

my grandson brought home the ingredient list for his latest cookery lesson. To make an apple pie he had to bring a pack of frozen pastry and a tin of pie filling. Aaaaagh!

That is actually quite shocking. I supose for the next lesson he will be taught to make frozen pizza

We need to get a turn around in attitude so that growing your own becomes a positive thing

I think that the attitudes about growing are quite different in the UK. No-one seems to look down on anyone else for growing stuff, they might if it effects the price of there house. People also seem to find if odd if anyone under the age of 50 is into gardening, but I think (and hope) that attitude is starting to change.

(glad to be back as well Nev, had a good christmas though, hope you did too mate).