what a jolly pickle!!

[Mrs H]

Hi guys, sorry I havnt been on in ages but life really became a bit manic threw illness etc and just as we thought things were coming right we find ourselves in another jolly pickle!!
Hubby and I claim full benefits as he is unemployed, all has been going well and financially we have really turned ourselves around by living on the minimum and not feeling like we're scrimping. Actually I've been quite enjoying it. Anyhow, we got a letter last week saying that there was a query with our claim and a customer compliance officer would be calling out. She came today, lovely girl, asked us a lot of questions and then got to the crunch! She asked if we had any undeclared back accounts, we told her we didn't we only have our current account were we receive r benefits into, she told us that their system showed we had an undeclared bank account with a large sum of money in it!! We laughed as we knew we didn't! However she then gave us more information and when she mentioned the banks name I recognized it as the one my FIL uses. I quickly called him and asked had he set up a bank account in hubby's name, he had and there is 15k in it! We were shocked! She explained to us that as we knew nothing about it and had no access to it that as long as the account was closed and they had evidence that the money had gone into Neils dads account that it should be ok but no guarantees.
We called neils dad again to explain and he got the arse, told us he didn't care what we did with the money and come and collect the book for it. My hubby went to see him and explained again what we needed to happen but he couldn't or wouldn't get what he was saying. He gave my husband the passbook and said he could transfer it into his current account short term.
This evening I spoke with my folks who told us that us having that passbook is fraudulant as now technically we have access to the money and explained that Neils dad needed to go with him tomorrow to the bank to organize the transfer to try desperatly to keep things right. Neil called his Dad to tell him what needed to be done only for his dad to say he didn't care if Neil got done for fraud etc that it was all r fault!!
Finally he has agreed to meet him at the bank tomorrow. Even with the money transferred and the account closed there are no guarantees that the social will believe that we didn't know about it.
What a jolly head baffling pickle! Who would have thought 15k could cause u so much grief!! Any thoughts on this would be gratefully received as we r feeling very lost and to be quite honest scared as if we lose all r benefits 15k won't go far once u take in rent etc and that's before we mentally deal with neils dad attitude to it all!!
Do you reckon the easy life is far away???? Xxxx

[The Riff-Raff Element]

Eek! Now that's a tricky one. I'm assuming that this account must have existed for some time? After all, it's no easy matter opening an account for someone without their signature and ID these days, so could it have been opened when your husband was under 18?

If it was, then the bank should be able to provide you with evidence that the account was opened by and only operated by a third party (and they should co-operate once they understand the problem), which I would have thought would have been enough for the Social. Have you been able to find out why your FIL opened it?

[Mrs H]

It was opened back in 1999, neil would have been 21 then. He opened it so as should we ever be in the position to buy a house then it was there. Why he's failed to mention it when he knows what benefits we were applying for I don't know. Its hard because it was so lovely of him but now potentially its gonna screw us. X

[Graye]

As he didn't open it himself and was not a signatory (apparently?) then he has no access to the money in it. It's all in your FIL's name overall (despite it being "for...") and his responsibility. Holding the passbook means nothing as my husband found out when his first wife died. Her aunt had some years previously opened an account in wife's name (with her co-operation) and kept the passbook. It was apparently some sort of ploy to hide the money but with nothing in writing. The ONLY person entitled tot he money was my OH as his first wife's executor, despite the aunt holding the book etc. Major problems were caused all round as they had separated amicably years before and he ended up sorting everything out etc!

Imagine the grief which could be caused if we all started opening bank account "for..." and it then became their money. It just wouldn't happen that way. Explain to the benefits people it is not an account in your husband's name even though it is designated "for...", if that's the case. If he has the right to sign (ie he was there when it was opened) I suspect that is whole different kettle of fish though...

[boboff]

Oh my!

Some things to think about.

Was the account paying interest? If so were you or your FIL getting it? If the later then it shows it was not "your" money, if it was the former, then check any tax consequences.

If it was some Inheritance Tax planning thing, then it's either a gift or it's not, a gift with "reservations" don't count. Again if it is the later then it should help your case.

Give the cash back to FIL. If he for some reason doesn't want it back ( it sounds like it might cause him grief in one way or another) use it to buy some Gold or a picture or a car!

[Flo]

Go down Citizen's Advice PDQ and get some legal advice.

[RuthG]

It's odd they are complaining as the limit for receiving benefits and having money in an account is £15k! Maybe they are just miffed that you didnt declare it? (Not that you could if you didnt know it was there in the first place!)

[that_sarah_girl]

do you have kids/nieces/nephews?

I don't know how these things work, but if you're not going to miss £15K that was saved for you and your FIL doesn't want it back, maybe you could put it into a savings account for someone you know who may need it in future...just make sure you tell them about it so they don't get accused of benefit fraud too!

[RuthG]

It's odd they are complaining as the limit for receiving benefits and having money in an account is £15k! Maybe they are just miffed that you didnt declare it? (Not that you could if you didnt know it was there in the first place!)

Been and checked and this is what I discovered:

you have to declare all capital ie savings, bank, building society and post office accounts when you make a claim. its fruad if you don't.
you can have £16000 pounds in savings, but anything over £6000 is taken into account at the ratio of £1 off your personal allowance (PA) for every £250 over the £6000.

[MKG]

You say, insistently, "We didn't know about it".

You get your FIL, kicking and screaming if necessary, to say "They didn't know about it".

You get the bank to say - because they must know - the FIL opened the account.

Simples. They'll still take it into account, but they'll stop accusing you of fraud.

Mike

[Green Aura]

I really think I must be thick - or totally missing the point here.

If the fraud folk accept you didn't know anything about it and your FIL says you can have the money wouldn't this be an opportunity to start up some sort of business? You're both very talented people, not looking to make millions, and £15k sounds like a brilliant start - some to invest in the business and some to live on for a while. You might even be able to get start-up advice/assistance/grants instead of your current benefits.

[happyhippy]

Please don't think I'm having a go,I'm not.I don't know your personal circumstances,or the chances of you finding suitable employment in the area you live,but if you had jobs,then the £15,000 would be yours to do want you want with.

[Mrs H]

Hi guys, thanks for all ur replies. Well fil finally accepted it had to go back to him so money was transferred yesterday and account closed. He has written a letter saying we knew nothing about it so we submitted everything to the social today. Its in the hands of the gods now while we wait and see what the decision makers say. Scarey times.
Green Aura, if everything works r way then it is a definate possibility as we r desperate to get off benefits and this just adds to that need!
Happyhippy u r quite right if we had jobs this money would be ours but there r no jobs over here currently, still people being made redundant unfortunatly.
Xxx