planning a larder

[Annpan]

In the new build part of our house I hope to incorporate a proper almost walk-in larder, It will have modern standards of insulation so just a cupboard won't really be cold enough. I am have asked my builder and he is fine with putting in a few air bricks for me but I need to figure out how to do it.

I am thinking one around a foot from the ground and one around a foot from the ceiling, thus creating a draft between the 2 to keep things cold. This is on a North West facing wall but so close to my neighbours garden wall that it will never see daylight.

Then, should I build a breeze block cupboard? or just a stud wall? with insulation, presumably?

Any thoughts?

[red]

we used to have a pantry when i was a kid, in a 1930s house - it was a cupboard, with a very small window that had no glass, but mesh (to stop flies) - you might want to think about keeping the flies out...

i use an outdoor shed now, we are lucky to have a stone one not far from the back door, and is ideal for keeping jam etc. - but i spose it might freeze for you up there

[Annpan]

It would freeze up here Red... Before the build started I put all my tins of paint in the shed.... we had -17ºC some nights and -10ºC several nights in a row... all the paint is ruined.
So I won't be storing anything out in a shed.

OH has whinged (yes whinged) about putting holes in insulation. I told him that to have a nice cool larder will be worth it, and besides the larder itself will be insulated... he said 'just keep things in cupboards'

I despair....

[red]

he has a point though.. to insulate the house and then put a hole in it - is it worth it?

i guess you could super insulate the cupboard.... but i can see a draft situation if you are not careful. you have to work it out, whether it will save you money to have a cold larder or not.

[Odsox]

We have a larder Ann and I wouldn't be without it now.
When we moved here it was a fuel store, not exactly a "coal hole" but just a windowless room next to the kitchen.

It's about 8' x 4' and when I converted it I knocked an 8" square hole in the outside wall and covered both sides with those plastic vent covers you can get in any DIY shop. The outside one has a fine mesh incorporated in it and the indoor one has a shutter, for stopping draughts when the wind is that way. I also put a vent in the door and as the kitchen has a Rayburn it probably draws the air through ... that was the idea anyway.
Mine is made of solid concrete blocks and the small four foot outside wall is east facing and the temperature in there is always several degrees below ambient and a great place to put hot food to cool, the remains of a roast, somewhere to hang a jelly bag, store vegetables, wine cellar, cheese store etc etc.

[Green Aura]

My pantry is inside, right inside, in the middle of the house. It's a large cupboard that had huge deep shelves that were useless for anything! My daughter's ex took them out made new, shallower u-shaped (sort of) shelving all round and you can step in but that's all I don't know what size it is - at a guess about 4" square-ish, maybe slightly bigger. We drilled holes top and bottom of the door and put car-mending mesh over them (it was the only thing we could find).

We've got hooks in the ceiling for hanging bacon, sausages etc and a cheese safe to store - well cheese . But apart from all the dried and bottled stuff I've not tried it yet because I think it might be too warm.

When we started it the hall was cool, all year round - no radiators in there and not much light. We'd tried hanging a side of bacon in the shed to air-dry, but the atmosphere is so moist up here it just went mouldy (not in a nice way), which was why we decided to utilise the pantry.

Since my Ma came to live with us we installed a thermostat-controlled heater, set to 15 degrees C. The pantry door is shut, unless we're getting out/putting in so it might still be a little cooler, but I don't think it will be cool enough. So I currently have a freezer loaded with pork ready to make into bacon. And a large section of my (small) fridge given over to my cheese-making efforts (which promises to be goooood!)

Best laid plans eh?

[Odsox]

Out of interest I just put a thermometer in my larder and it's exactly 10c at the mo, which is eight degrees lower than the other side of the door in the kitchen.

[madabouthens]

I love walk-in pantries/larders. We are in an old house, which has been "modernised " before we bought it Not insulated or anything sensible like that, but all the old features taken out Now the only place to build a larder is in the old ty bach, the outside toilet; but that is a project further down the list !

[TheGoodEarth]

OH has whinged (yes whinged) about putting holes in insulation. I told him that to have a nice cool larder will be worth it, and besides the larder itself will be insulated... he said 'just keep things in cupboards'

I despair....

As long as you make the door going into the larder an exterior one with a very good U value it should be negligble how much heat you will lose through the breach in the envelope. That will of course cost you £500 more than an interior door.

[Green Aura]

And is 10 degrees cool enough to hang meat, store cheese etc?

[Annpan]

My builder pointed out today that since the larder would have no heating it would be colder anyway... however he also said that a single vent in a cupboard wouldn't make a huge difference in temp to the rest of the kitchen.

He will put one in if I want...I can't decide if I should.

Red, I don't think it would 'save' any money to put one in, but to think I would be able to store all sorts of produce safely is more the issue, it would save us money on a bigger fridge I guess... but, I'm not so sure.

Having a larder was always on the wish list for the new section of the house the issue now I think is whether or not to vent it???

[Susiwaa]

We've got a larder cupboard in this house. House is brick built so has nice thick walls! There are two air vents - one about 1.5 feet off the ground and the other about a foot from the ceiling.

Even though its the South facing side of the house it stays nicely cold in the summer and extra cold in the winter (so cold beer doesn't need to go in the fridge to be cool!)

I really do love it, recently re did the shelving to make it more useable and its gone from good to great!



Susi

[red]

My builder pointed out today that since the larder would have no heating it would be colder anyway... however he also said that a single vent in a cupboard wouldn't make a huge difference in temp to the rest of the kitchen.

He will put one in if I want...I can't decide if I should.

Red, I don't think it would 'save' any money to put one in, but to think I would be able to store all sorts of produce safely is more the issue, it would save us money on a bigger fridge I guess... but, I'm not so sure.

Having a larder was always on the wish list for the new section of the house the issue now I think is whether or not to vent it???

well if you do vent it. will it be possible to close the vent? and i would look at getting the door to larder insulated.. keeping the cool air in, and stopping it from going into rest of house.

[JulieSherris]

Ann, if you do put one in, whatever way you ventilate/insulate, also have a think about at least one of the shelves......

My Nan & my Mum both had walk-ins, but the 'daily' shelf at about waist height were made from paving slabs.
Even in the height of summer the butter in the butter dish would still keep cool & fresh on the slab - in fact when I think back now, there was a lot of foods stored on those slabs that we usually have to keep in the fridge nowadays - perfect for bread, eggs, tomatoes, oh, and the fruit bowl!

[Odsox]

I totally agree Julie (nice to see you)
We have exactly the same except ours is a marble slab, salvaged years ago when marble topped washstands were considered old fashioned and could be bought dirt cheap.
I can't honestly see what the problem is Ann, if you can fit one into your scheme then do it, I guarantee you won't regret it.
Where else can you keep your potatoes dark and cool, onions and carrots that go black in the fridge and the same goes for bananas. Where else will you keep your wine, sloe gin, bread, cake, Christmas turkey, ham, butter, cheese, left overs, eggs, salami, squash, tomatoes, apples, bottled fruit, jam, or even just cooling food before putting in the fridge or freezer and all that just a couple of steps from the kitchen.
I know I wouldn't be without mine, but you probably guessed that anyway.