swine flu

[Millymollymandy]

Good luck with the driving test Clara and I hope you remember which side of the road to drive on.

[pskipper]

Yikes there are some people scaremongering on this topic! Just to establish my credentials I'd like to point out I've spent the last two weeks helping run tests for Swine Flu in Birmingham (and haven't caught it!)

Yes it is spreading, 65000 cases in the UK was the last figure I could find. However there have only been 27 deaths, if my maths are correct that is a 0.04% death rate compared to a 0.1% death rate for seasonal flu!!!! (I do not mean to make light of the tragedy of these deaths to the friends and families)

Yes the government are making a big thing of this, one of the main reasons they are doing this is because it allows them to test their pandemic response capability on a pandemic disease which fortunately is not highly deadly.

The one thing I would like to point out is PLEASE listen to the governments advice regarding swine flu, if you believe you have it and want treatment call NHSdirect or the flu hotline, please do not go to A&E or your doctors as you could be exposing people with underlying health problems to the virus and they are the ones who are dying! Frustratingly in spite of the news etc relaying this information nearly a quarter of the samples which came in to be tested over the last fortnight at Birmingham were outpatient A&E ones from the hospitals.

Sorry if this seems like a rant, hope anyone who has come down with it gets better soon!

Philip

[Big Al]

Big Al, your scare-mongering doesn't help. You must be worried sick all the time, at the moment in Britain it would appear that swine flu is no more likely to kill you than falling down stairs or being in a traffic accident... do you also panic about stairs? and getting in a car or crossing the road?

I have known a few people now who have had swine flu (they were all high profile cases, it is a fact that they had it) They all said it was bad enough to take a day or 2 off work, made them sleepy and gave them the runs. They wouldn't have known it was anything special, a bit worse than a cold but not paralysing the way that the flu can be. But just like a cold to the wrong person, or the flu, or an infected cut or a bee sting - it can kill, but much more likely you'll just feel out of sorts for a few days.

And these 'underlying health issues' it isn't necessarily any of our business what they were, but I am sure we have all known an old person who has gone into hospital nearing the end, it is touch and go for a few days, then they get an infection (be it cold, flu, staff infection) and they don't make it. It doesn't mean that you or I are likely to drop down dead.


But also... people do die... you know that, right?

We live in one of the countries lucky enough to have a reliable health service, and the option to go private if you want. We have a good Military, Police, Fire service, Health Service, and Volunteer Core - that, should things really start to go mad (which I greatly doubt) we are still going to have food, water and essential health care... we have a long way to go before we are in a state of anarchy like you seem to suggest.

I can't and will never understand the mentality that makes someone want to outlive everyone else at any cost. Stockpiling supplies because sometimes you get snowed in or you don't have enough fuel to get to the shops every week is one thing... stockpiling because it might be the end of the world is quite another.

Ok,
I'll retreat.
I don't want to upset anymore people but in ending my imput a few observations if I may.

I don't panic about anything. I see or percieve a problem, I research that problem then come to a conclusion guided by many pieces of infomation so as for your examples of the stairs , I wouldn't walk down wet concrete stairs in the winter and I would look both ways for traffic or wear seatbelts in a car. If the car was being driven badly I'd get out etc.
From memory I don't think I have said I want to stockpile for all eternity, maybe I have given that perception I don't know but I can't afford to keep that amount of stockpile at present.

Just out of curiosity what happens to this great country of ours when so many of the police, fire, nhs and volly core go down with problems or when these great people won't go to work in case they get ill ?

Believe me this will happen. I'm on a few medical / security related boards and this is the underlying feeling of a lot of people not to mention the truck drivers delivering food, water workers maning the pumps, electric workers providing power etc ?

It was in the Indipendent on Saturday that schools could be closed for extra weeks after the summer holidays to combat the spread of any pandemic. What would the parents of these children do about childcare especially if they were in the police, fire, nhs etc delivery drivers etc? If they left them alone as "responsible young people" do you think they would stay in house quarentine or have a few friends over to play?

I've got over my initial worries somewhat but why are the government pushing ahead with the introduction of the vaccine before trials have been completed. Trials of between 200 and 400 "live " tests on people will not be completed before the first traunch of vaccines are wheeled out to the "at risk" catagories... so in essence you have a test study of up to 400 people to test that the vaccine will be safe for over 60m people but it will ALSO be issued before the trial is complete?

I feel confident at that ..... don't you?

Please look for this info yourself and don't think I'm scaremongering because I'm not, I am concerned, greatly, but each to their own I feel now.

Also has anyone studied the 1976 pandemic vaccine in america which is the same strain as we are using now ? Of course the modern practices are much better now aren't they? Oh I forgot the medical proffessors are now coming out on the news warning of "possible side effects".
And don't forget that in the race to produce the vaccine in suitable quantities they are adding chemicals to "make it go further" [ not my words either].
Not to mention the effects of the Guillain-Barre Syndrome which is a very big possabillity being a side effect of this vaccine.....

Again People die, Hell I might even die one day, Micheal jackson said he would live to atleast 150.... but I hope, for now I will not be dieing
but for every person like me who [probably] has too much time on their hands / too much pain to do meaningful tasks there will be probably 100,000 who think like you annpan and that's ok.

Without wishing to be rude people like you think the state will support you and do all you need, provide good sources of food, water and opportunity when in reality, I fear they will do nothing of the sort.

Hopefully it will not be bad in the coming months and I'll be big enough to take the "I told you so " comments but that way we will be ok. If I am able to say " I told YOU so" then we will be well and truly in the doo doo..

[wolfsong]

t was in the Indipendent on Saturday that schools could be closed for extra weeks after the summer holidays to combat the spread of any pandemic. What would the parents of these children do about childcare especially if they were in the police, fire, nhs etc delivery drivers etc? If they left them alone as "responsible young people" do you think they would stay in house quarentine or have a few friends over to play?

I very much doubt that this will be a problem Big Al, it will never happen.
A) there is as you say no feasible way of keeping all these kids at home without disrupting the adult's work, and therefore the running of the country
B) the people you talk about have a moral/legal obligation to go to work... and there are a large amount of emergency services workers who do not have children.
This is typical of the journalism that gets me annoyed, big events, big headlines. All hypothetical.

About the Vaccine, at the moment, there isn't one. Most people don't need one. Most people won't want one, it is only those at risk from a defeated immune system that will really need this, in the end yes many will have side affects, but this is for the government to decide. In the end, it is your choice, take the vaccine, or have the bug.

[grannymags]

I don't see any reason to worry too much about this PANICdemic.
As said before, thousands die each year from 'ordinary' flu and all
this seems to have been blown out of proportion.

I do think people are perfectly right to be careful but some are just plain stupid!
A woman came to the hospital where I work to get a prescription for
Tamiflu for her son who is nine years old. It was out of hours for the pharmacy.
She walked onto the ward with her son in tow!!!! Even more crazy was
the fact that her husband was at home with the other children!! Why on earth
did she bring her son with her? Aside from the people being put at risk it was totally
unfair to bring a poorly child away from home. Poor thing.

While people are being this stupid it is no wonder the virus will spread.

I do wonder, though, if people will start to get medication by saying they have
the symptoms so that they can take it 'just in case', that is, using it prophylactically.
This could render the medication ineffective in the case of a real bout of flu? I don't
know, but it could be worrying.

In the mean time, I remain calm. What is the point of worrying about something
which may not happen?

Maggie

[red]

I do wonder, though, if people will start to get medication by saying they have
the symptoms so that they can take it 'just in case', that is, using it prophylactically.
This could render the medication ineffective in the case of a real bout of flu? I don't
know, but it could be worrying.

sadly only too likely. or stockpiling the medication. if people were less selfish.... we would all be better off.. including the selfish people...

[Big Al]

Now I know I'll get slated for this post but heck, I thought it was funny...

I have had a bad chest for months now so went to the doctors again yesterday. Sat in the waiting room which is big barking and coughing because all the perfumes and aftershaves were making it hard to breathe but with a tissue in place etc and the look on peoples faces and their actions such as pretending to wipe their noses ... for 5 minutes at a time etc so I said it's ok it's not swine flu just a bad chest. A huge sigh of relief then came and I went in to see the Doc... I came out with an inhailer script and the wicked bit in me smiled and as I was walking through the waiting room I proclaimed .... " IT WAS SWINE FLU AFTER ALL" ...

Well it made me chuckle... slagging off now permitted.....


P.S.

The big bad wolf was running through the forest and he came across the house of the three little pigs. He knocked on the door and said if you don't leave I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll blow your house down....

The three little pigs replied
" F*** Off or we'll sneeze all over you"

[Millymollymandy]

Oh you bad, bad boy!

[faybee]

Hey, I currently have swine flu and am in quarantine until Thursday. I'm already extremely bored and feel like a bit of a fraud having all this time off work as it's really not too bad. For me it's generally been a case of respiratory problems, palpitations and all over weakness, combined with crazy temperature fluctuations and the sudden need to sleep at strange points in the day. Since starting the Tamiflu, I have developed a very sore throat, and was warned that it would get worse before it got better, but still, I don't feel like I'm at death's door. My only (small) concern is that you only get one lot of Tamiflu, and if the flu mutates in the winter, I wont be immune anymore, and wont be able to get any meds. I'll eat lots of onions and garlic and get back to running by then though- should strengthen my immune system.

Something that's annoyed me is that the tamiflu comes in capsules that contain gelatine. As a veggie I'm really not chuffed about having to take them, but in my 'OH MY GOD I'VE GOT SWINE FLU' panic, I didn't think to ask my mom to ask when she collected them. I guess someone else would have taken them anyway, so I'm having to think about it in that sense. This is the first time that I've knowingly eaten a meat product in 12 years though.

Just so you know, I'm a fit and healthy 22 year old except, for an 'underlying health problem' of an ear infection!I didn't have much food in the house when I was diagnosed, and my husband has been ill too, so getting a few tinned items in is not necessarily a bad idea, but only 2/3 days worth. We were naughty and ordered a take-away tonight, my husband was well enough to answer the door to the delivery man.

Just thought it would be nice for people to hear what it's really like from somebody who actually has it, rather than relying on the sensationalist reports that are out there. I don't really watch the news or read the papers, but I work in a shop so I hear what people are reading about and being told, and some of it's just silly.

[grannymags]

Oh Faybee, I hope you feel better soon. ((((Hugs))))

'They' are supposed to be bringing out a vaccine in September
but, of course, that will be for the present strain of swine flu
and won't help if it mutates. I suppose it would afford some
immunity? I don't know.

As for the gelatine, I think the ingredients of any medicine should
be printed on the box so we can make an informed decision.
Prescriptions are expensive enough, but if you can't take them
it is a complete waste of time and money as well as a delay in
treatment. The information sheet in the box always says 'do not
take this medicine if you are allergic to any of the ingredients'!
As I say, it should be outside of the box, not inside.

There doesn't seem to be any alternative to gelatine in tamiflu
so I'm not sure I would take it. Apparently it only shortens the duration
of illness by about one day. I wouldn't be able to have the vaccine as
they culture it in eggs. Eggs are one of the things I am allergic to so the
vaccine could kill me rather than cure!!

Anyway, my very best wishes for a speedy recovery. And, Welcome to the forum!

((((More Hugs))))

Maggie x

[boatkinson]

Science in action for laymen--
http://www.opposingviews.com/questions/ ... nked/links

----------------------------------------------------
from-- http://www.theflucase.com/

Saturday, 29 August 2009 12:33
News - Highlighted News
Next >
Senator Jay Rockefeller, head of the Senate Committee on Finance that steered through Senate Bill S. 666 -- the Biological, Chemical, and Radiological Weapons Countermeasures Research Act introduced by Sen. Joseph Lieberman -- that provided government money to pharmaceutical companies such as Baxter to increase research to develop biological, chemical, and radiological weapons, is now pushing through a bill for the White House to be given the power to switch off the internet in a "cyberrsecurity" emergency, according to a report by Declan McCullagh on CNET.

http://www.infowars.com/bill-would-give ... -internet/

"CNET News has obtained a summary of a proposal from Senators Jay Rockefeller (D-W.V.) and Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) that would create an Office of the National Cybersecurity Advisor, part of the Executive Office of the President. That office would receive the power to disconnect, if it believes they're at risk of a cyberattack, "critical" computer networks from the Internet. "

------------------------------

Inconvenient Truths About Gardasil and Swine Flu Vaccines
The summer of 2009 revealed two inconvenient truths about vaccination. First, the Gardasil vaccine is not as safe as the government, medical organizations and Merck have said it is. Second, the H1N1 influenza pandemic is not as serious as health officials are telling you it is. [...snip] From-
http://blogs.mercola.com/sites/vitalvot ... cines.aspx




From- http://www.legitgov.org/essay_bosworth_ ... 40809.html
Exposed: The Swine Flu Hoax
By Andrew Bosworth, Ph.D.

The alarm has been sounded. Politicians, pharmaceutical executives and media conglomerates would have us believe that a 1918-style pandemic is a real threat. The 1918 pandemic, however, evolved out of conditions unique to World War I, for four specific reasons.

Why 2009 is Not 1918

First, World War I was characterized by millions of troops living in waterlogged trenches along the Western Front. This war zone became fertile ground for an opportunistic virus, as medical literature reveals:

"…a landscape that was contaminated with respiratory irritants such as chlorine and phosgene, and characterized by stress and overcrowding, the partial starvation in civilians, and the opportunity for rapid ‘passage’ of influenza in young soldiers would have provided the opportunity for multiple but small mutational charges throughout the viral genome." (1)

Second, the war witnessed the growth of industrial-scale military camps and embarkation ports, such as Etaples in France, enabling the flu virus to enter into another phase of accelerated mutation. On any given day, Etaples was a makeshift city of 100,000 troops from around the British Empire and its former dominions. These soldiers concentrated into unsanitary barracks, tents and mess halls. [...snip]

[Ron and Jean]

The cynic in me thinks that the media are making such a fuss about swine flu (which doesn't seem to be as serious as normal flu) because the government spent so much money (millions) preparing for bird flu. They stockpiled tamiflu at great expense and I suspect it is nearing the end of it's shelf life. If they didn't use it they would face criticism over the waste of public funds, so swine flu is being used to make us believe our government is great for preparing in advance for a flu pandemic. In reality there are herbal antivirals that are safe and effective (not causing nausea and vomiting that is worse than the flu itself!), and swine flu in not a big threat.

If anyone gets tamiflu I would be really interested in hearing what the 'useby' date is on it!

[red]

I've just had flu - I'm guessing swine flu since its the one that is doing the rounds.. but i didn't go the dr or phone any helplines nor take tamiflu.

I was running a temperature and feeling pretty rough for a week, and now over it - bar asthma which i always get post illness, and incredible tiredness - think its going to take a while to get over the fatigue. so - just like flu then.

[wolfsong]

Wehay! We're all saved!!! There is a vaccine.

[quote=BBC]Ministers unveiled plans on Thursday to vaccinate over 13 million people in the first wave of the UK programme.[/quote]

Sorry I'm a bit late on seeing this one... there have been no developments since according to the Beeb. (14 august)

A vaccine that should by rights be in clinical trials for months! they are now talking about mass vaccinations...

Oh yeah and to go back to the people who were saying it was weaponised, my money atm is on the pharmaceutical company that makes Tamiflu, Hoffman-la-roche. Or what about Glaxo-Smith-Kline, makers of Zanamivir...

Since these are two HUGE Pharma. companies, I would expect they will be some of the first to develop, yep you've got it, a vaccine!

[Millymollymandy]

I've just had flu - I'm guessing swine flu since its the one that is doing the rounds.. but i didn't go the dr or phone any helplines nor take tamiflu.

I was running a temperature and feeling pretty rough for a week, and now over it - bar asthma which i always get post illness, and incredible tiredness - think its going to take a while to get over the fatigue. so - just like flu then.

Hope you get better soon - it does take it out of you, cold or flu or swine flu or even man flu.