Old bones and Hydroponic Gardening

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oldfella
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Old bones and Hydroponic Gardening

Post: # 138816Post oldfella »

Has any one in the land of Ish any experience, with Hydroponic gardening, as I am now finding my back is beginning to tell me enough is enough, and it takes quite a long time to recover after a couple of hours digging and bending.
I have plenty of planks and plastic sheeting, and the garden measures 60ftx20ft is in full sun so I am thinking to cover the garden with black plastic, build wooden trays 3ft x 12ft and 8ins deep, line with plastic and fill with sand with the drainage hole etc, and raise them on legs 2.5 ft off the ground. I have the books and plans but would like to hear if anyone has any experience in this as, the indications are that this method of gardening will enable me to carry on gardening until I convert the planks for another use a little further down the line, mind you when I do the final conversion I'm going to line with a bit red velvet, do like a bit of comfort for the old bone's. Anyway any views thoughts or info you may have would be appreciated.

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Re: Old bones and Hydroponic Gardening

Post: # 138819Post Green Aura »

I've not got any personal experience, Eddy, but quite near here is the Hydroponicum

http://www.thehydroponicum.com/

They don't grow outside, it's all contained in several interconnected greenhouses. Their produce is lovely (although I harbour some reservations about the chemicals - but that's probably another thread!).

We've not been for a few years but the last time we did they had a huge fig growing in a small tank, but going up to the ceiling and carrying along through, if memory serves, two of the three greenhouses. It was absolutely hung with figs. I'm sure we read it was only a very few years old - much younger than you'd expect from it's size.

We got to sample some of their tomatoes and, although the they weren't as good as our homegrown, they were much better than shop bought - it may have been due to the variety rather than the growing method.

They are predominantly a tourist attraction, I think, but they supply the local school, have a shop, selling kits as well as produce. I got the impression that they can produce far more in a smaller area by this method - but I'm in danger of wandering into the realms of that other thread again!
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Re: Old bones and Hydroponic Gardening

Post: # 138831Post Odsox »

I tried hydroponics in my greenhouse last year.
I stupidly grew potatoes in the soil border one year and in consequence now have blight spores in the soil, which means that any tomato plants are very susceptible to the disease. Now, the greenhouse is a home made wooden lean to that I built many years ago and is now dangerously rotten in places, meaning that this year I am going to totally dismantle it and rebuild it. Replacing all the soil would be a mammoth task as the greenhouse is 20 feet by 12 feet and I thought I would look into making it permanently hydroponic.
As I knew nothing about the subject I bought one of those kits that takes 3 plants and started it off last April. I grew 3 different varieties of tomato and 2 of them did very well, while the other didn't like it at all. The one that didn't like it was a Sub Arctic Plenty and the two that did were Gigante Liscio and Gardeners Delight and those 2 grew and produced much better than the same varieties grown next to them conventionally.
It was very easy to look after them but not entirely without work as the water supply needs changing every few weeks (I assume it's because the water evaporates and the salts and minerals get left behind making a more and more concentrated solution).
As to the experiment, I think I will almost certainly convert the new house to permanent hydroponics with concrete gulleys and a built in tank, but now that I am a bit more experienced with the system, I can design the layout with a bit more confidence ... like having a drain system to change the water easily. One important benefit of hydro is that it can look after itself for several weeks (allowing you to take a holiday without too many worries), and the main drawback is it's virtually impossible to do it organically as I'm not sure how you would supply all the necessary soluble trace elements. One thing I mean to try, maybe this year, is growing lettuces floating in a tank.
I would say overall Eddy that your idea is a sound one providing that you realise that there are some crops that don't lend themselves to being grown this way. Growing 2'6" off the ground is a big bonus, on the other hand you may need a ladder to pick certain tall crops and don't forget the wind, that may cause problems unless you are very sheltered.
If it allows you to keep gardening Eddy, then go for it ... if nothing else it's fun learning the technique.
Tony

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Re: Old bones and Hydroponic Gardening

Post: # 138947Post Ellendra »

If you want to try hydroponics without the chemicals, you might have a look at aquaponics. Basically its a hydroponic set-up with a fish tank included. The fish waste is exactly the right mix of nutrients for the plants, and the plants clean and oxygenate the water for the fish. I used to have a site bookmarked where people were showing off their homemade aquaponic setups, but I lost it. There was even one that was made entirely out of a wheelie bin.

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Re: Old bones and Hydroponic Gardening

Post: # 139012Post Odsox »

Ellendra wrote:If you want to try hydroponics without the chemicals, you might have a look at aquaponics. Basically its a hydroponic set-up with a fish tank included. The fish waste is exactly the right mix of nutrients for the plants, and the plants clean and oxygenate the water for the fish. I used to have a site bookmarked where people were showing off their homemade aquaponic setups, but I lost it. There was even one that was made entirely out of a wheelie bin.
This was discussed a few months back, see ... http://www.selfsufficientish.com/forum/ ... 12&t=10303
at least two problems arise with this system, one is that the tank needs to be opaque to stop algae build up, .. is it cruel to keep fish in the dark, and secondly, what do you do with the fish in the winter months ?
Tony

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oldfella
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Re: Old bones and Hydroponic Gardening

Post: # 139015Post oldfella »

From my reading and understanding of Hydroponic growing, is that the chemicals used in the operation are all present in the soil of your garden and, all that the science has done has removed the need for the plant to extract the minerals from the soil there by cutting down the growing time, and of course giving you more control over development of the plant. One thing that I notice in my reading however is that the germination times of most seeds is nearly the same as in the normal gardening, but thereafter the growth is much faster, and the fact that the distance between plants is much closer gives higher yields. As far as I know I have never eaten food produced in this manner so as to taste I would be interested for any thoughts from folk who have.

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Re: Old bones and Hydroponic Gardening

Post: # 139018Post Odsox »

oldfella wrote:As far as I know I have never eaten food produced in this manner so as to taste I would be interested for any thoughts from folk who have.
I can only comment on tomatoes but they tasted exactly the same as the ones growing next to them in the soil.
I take you point about the minerals being present in the soil .. of course they are, what I was trying to point out is that the minerals and trace elements supplied for hydroponic use are almost certainly not of organic origin if this is important to you. It's not for me as I garden with a mix of organic and non-organic, for example the above soil grown tomatoes were fed with non-organic Tomorite.
It might be quite possible to find or produce your own organic hydroponic mix of course .. just never looked.
Tony

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Re: Old bones and Hydroponic Gardening

Post: # 139123Post Ellendra »

Odsox wrote:
Ellendra wrote:If you want to try hydroponics without the chemicals, you might have a look at aquaponics. Basically its a hydroponic set-up with a fish tank included. The fish waste is exactly the right mix of nutrients for the plants, and the plants clean and oxygenate the water for the fish. I used to have a site bookmarked where people were showing off their homemade aquaponic setups, but I lost it. There was even one that was made entirely out of a wheelie bin.
This was discussed a few months back, see ... http://www.selfsufficientish.com/forum/ ... 12&t=10303
at least two problems arise with this system, one is that the tank needs to be opaque to stop algae build up, .. is it cruel to keep fish in the dark, and secondly, what do you do with the fish in the winter months ?
Actually it was that thread that got me doing more research on the idea. Choose your fish carefully and they'll eat the algae, or you can add a few gilled snails that will eat the algae for you. (Gilled snails need water to breathe, so they'd be far less likely to escape and ravage your garden) Some fish are also cold-tolerant enough that as long as the tank didn't freeze solid they'd be fine, there are pond heaters that would help. There's actually more of a danger of overheating in summer, but if the tank is set partially into the ground and shaded it should be fine.

Like I said, I've been doing a lot of research into this, planning my setup for when I'm finally able to move out on my land. Its a fascinating concept once you get past the charletons selling junk and move on into the real meat of it.

oldfella
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Re: Old bones and Hydroponic Gardening

Post: # 139193Post oldfella »

Ellendra wrote:
Odsox wrote:
Ellendra wrote:If you want to try hydroponics without the chemicals, you might have a look at aquaponics. Basically its a hydroponic set-up with a fish tank included. The fish waste is exactly the right mix of nutrients for the plants, and the plants clean and oxygenate the water for the fish. I used to have a site bookmarked where people were showing off their homemade aquaponic setups, but I lost it. There was even one that was made entirely out of a wheelie bin.
This was discussed a few months back, see ... http://www.selfsufficientish.com/forum/ ... 12&t=10303
at least two problems arise with this system, one is that the tank needs to be opaque to stop algae build up, .. is it cruel to keep fish in the dark, and secondly, what do you do with the fish in the winter months ?
Actually it was that thread that got me doing more research on the idea. Choose your fish carefully and they'll eat the algae, or you can add a few gilled snails that will eat the algae for you. (Gilled snails need water to breathe, so they'd be far less likely to escape and ravage your garden) Some fish are also cold-tolerant enough that as long as the tank didn't freeze solid they'd be fine, there are pond heaters that would help. There's actually more of a danger of overheating in summer, but if the tank is set partially into the ground and shaded it should be fine.

Like I said, I've been doing a lot of research into this, planning my setup for when I'm finally able to move out on my land. Its a fascinating concept once you get past the charletons selling junk and move on into the real meat of it.

Maybe this will be of interest to you if you Google in Simple Sand Hydroponics, which is for me the ideal answer as it requires no bending down, interested to know what your thoughts on the system
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Re: Old bones and Hydroponic Gardening

Post: # 139211Post Odsox »

oldfella wrote:Maybe this will be of interest to you if you Google in Simple Sand Hydroponics, which is for me the ideal answer as it requires no bending down, interested to know what your thoughts on the system
Thanks for that link. My first thoughts are ... what a good idea for someone who has a concreted back garden and wants to grow their own vegetables.
This system could be quite easily made using 6" sewage pipes and their fittings like elbows & stop ends. I think the grey pipes are more suited as the brown ones are for underground use and are not UV stabilised.
I like the ebb & flow system for it's simplicity rather than the nutrient film technique that I used last year, but I think if I were to copy this plan and I were to use several troughs, I think I would look into having a raised feed tank (higher than the troughs) with several outlets controlled by hosepipe timers, with just a single submersible sump pump, that way there would be no problem in balancing the different trough feeds, and you could easily expand the system over time, plus it saves a pump and uses gravity instead (free energy !)
Regarding the algae build up on this system, you could easily cover the troughs with black polythene and pierce holes to plant through. That would stop it and have the advantage of reducing evaporation and keeping the roots warm.
This was the sort of system that I was thinking of installing in my (soon to be) refurbished greenhouse.
Tony

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oldfella
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Re: Old bones and Hydroponic Gardening

Post: # 139277Post oldfella »

Hi Odsox

Yes I agree, and I will be installing a high level feeder tank, and your idea of the feed line being independent to each pipe bed as this would answer another of my problems as I intend to start tomorrow to build my first two pipe beds and over the next few weeks/months to eventually increase the number up to maybe ten which would give us enough to grow most of our own veg.
Anyhow, will keep in touch and let you know how it go's, and post a photo or two when I complete the first stage,

Eddy
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Re: Old bones and Hydroponic Gardening

Post: # 140129Post Wombat »

I did try organic hydroponics some years back and it is something I mean to get back to. It was based around a water extraction of wood ash, worm castings and chook poo! Results were rather variable though.

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Re: Old bones and Hydroponic Gardening

Post: # 140139Post Odsox »

Wombat wrote:I did try organic hydroponics some years back and it is something I mean to get back to. It was based around a water extraction of wood ash, worm castings and chook poo! Results were rather variable though.

Nev
Yes, this is both the drawback and the advantage of hydroponics at the same time .... you have to supply absolutely everything that the plant needs to thrive, miss something out and the results will be as you say "variable"
On the other hand, by providing everything the plant needs you can control precisely what the plant gets as opposed the rather hit and miss conditions in your average garden soil, not to mention soil born pests and diseases.
Just on that score it could be the answer to growing brassicas when you have club root in your soil.
Tony

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