not get ripped off when buying a wood burning stove?

[Tippychooks]

Quick background - I have a bungalow with night storage heaters that are super-pricey and, frankly, rubbish. I've opened a bricked-up fireplace to reveal the old back boiler and a good, if dirty, chimney.

If I just put a grate in I need to get the back boiler removed, which is apparantly v.expensive, and it won't be as efficient. I'm relying on the stove to pretty much heat the house but I can't get a stove with an output of more than 5kw cos of the size of the room. SO I need the efficiency of a woodburner I think. I have no real options otherwise that I could afford to install (oil) or run (electric rads) and there's no gas supply to the village.

I am shocked and saddened by the prices of small woodburners: the stoves don't seem so bad but the installation and chimbley liners seem to take the prices into the silly leagues. The cheapest I've had so far for a small stove is around £650 plus VAT, just for the stove and parts. I'm currently chasing builders to find a HETAS registered one to install but am expecting that to be at least the same again

Is this normal? Can I be rude and ask what you paid for your woodburners (those who have them)? Or......long shot.....can someone tell me the name and number of someone in North Devon who is just dying to do this for half the price?

[Green Aura]

Have you had a look on ebay? We bought a fantastic Esse a few months ago, secondhand. It's in perfect nick. Even if you needed to get new bits - firebricks, rope of glass they're not very expensive and there's not much else to go wrong with them. A lot of people put their stovepipe on too.

[Tippychooks]

I have tried ebay but I am a bit clueless and very wary of getting the wrong thing. I've also been told that if I buy it and get a builder to install it, I have to pay the building inspector to come out and sign it off. There do seem to be some legit companies selling on ebay too: proper ones with actual shops and everything (!) that are more reasonable but it's getting advice remotely that's difficult.

Think I may end up spending my entire student loan on builders (sob). At least the heating would be cheaper and we'll just have to heat value beans on the stove top.

[Millymollymandy]

Ours cost €2,000 about 5 years ago but we got 50% of that back as a tax rebate for buying a green energy thing. It doesn't have a back boiler (no such thing in France) but is a 13kW one so obviously more pricey than a small one.

We had it installed for us with double skinned stainless steel tube up the chimney stack - it cost a lot cos we have a 3 storey house so was over 20 metres of it - can't remember exactly but all the bits and bobs plus installation was quite a lot more on top, but installation itself was less than all the extras! It paid for itself in a year comparing how much wood heating costs compared to propane ch, which was already installed.

They do cost a lot when new and installed by a professional - but so does having ch installed. Good luck!

[bonniethomas06]

Hi,

Funny, we have been having exactly the same dilemma - and as our house is only rented, we don't want to spend a fortune on installation, only to have it removed to take it with us.

But we have found one for £199, and are not going to have our chimney lined - after all, you wouldn't have it lined for just a log fire, as long as the existing lining is ok. I found this website - the burners are very reasonable and it says (if you follow link) that you don't need to line your chimney unless the existing lining is dodgy:

http://www.woodburningstoveslimited.com ... .lining_56

[pelmetman]

Is there a reason why you have to remove the back boiler, does it protude into where the log burner/grate would go?

The price of log burners shot through the roof a couple years ago when energy prices went sky high. We have had log burners in the last 2 houses and would never be without one partly because I can use my off cuts to provide free heat

Where we are now I installed the log burner partly because its in our sunlounge and the builders seem to think it was to much like hard work to take on As we had no chimney.

Your correct in the price of liners as ours had to be the insulated type it cost nearly twice the price of the log burner

We are very pleased with it as the sun lounge was to cold to use in the winter even with 3 radiators But now its as warm as toast and as you can see we cook on it and heat the water for washing up, plus we barely use any oil now

Lamb shanks cooking

christmas 2009 020.JPG (39.01 KiB) Viewed 4856 times

[boboff]

I have just bought a new woodburner from ebay, it was £300, the new pipes £120! As its in a room which floods the air vents which were at ground level have been blocked up, so I have no choice to install it myself as it's over 5kw a proper chap would insist of making the room drafty! ( daft really as its in a room which has no doors internally and links to the kitchen, utility and all the upstairs landings)

What you could do is cut a hole into the chimney above the back boiler, and then just come up off the woodburner, 45degree angle into the hole and the seal that. The "firplace" then becomes redundant, and can be sealed off.

You should be able to see if the chimney needs lining by just lighting a smokey fire under it and seeing how it draws, and whether it fills any of the rooms with smoke above the fire ( make sure to check the loft) If it draws ok, then you should be ok, but if not lining it, make sure you sweep it every 2 to 3 months when you are using it all the time, the brushes are cheap enough.

[bonniethomas06]

Boboff - we light fires in the winter fairly regularly and although our sweep said that (being 200yr old) the lining was a bit deteriorated, we have found that provided the ventilation is OK, the draw was fine. Do you think this means we can just do as you say (i.e stick the tube up towards the existing fireplace and just seal it off?)
It seems to me that this is one of those areas which, because the risks are quite scary (we will all die in our beds of carbon monoxide poisioning etc) that these fears are exploited by tradesmen - I could be wrong, but if we are not leaving it on overnight, and already have log fires in the fireplace without any problems, do we really need to fork out to have the chimney lined?

[Millymollymandy]

Up to you but I think it's illegal not to in France these days and best to be safe than sorry - also think about when you have your chimney swept, you will have a load of gunk landing on top of your registry plate (or whatever they are called) which you will then have to dismantle to clean up every time and probably getting it all over your stove and the floor.

With ours only the tube needs to be swept and all the gunk can be collected in a bucket in the living room.

[bonniethomas06]

True MMM, I would agree under any other circumstances, but it would mean the difference between being able to afford one or not, so would be a shame to miss out if it was not strictly absolutely necessary to line the chimney.

But Boboff you are right about the brushes - I have just bought a set on Ebay for £20 - half the price of having it swept, and hey, I don't mind looking like something out of Mary Poppins. Soot washes off doesn't it??

[boboff]

Well if it draws then I would go for it.

Only fifty years ago people heated there house with solid fuel, and did not have liners/air vents/smoke detectors etc, you just put a picture of Granny on the mantle and that kept the kids away from the fire.

It could be a bodge and not all that brilliant, but at the end of the day people have been making fire and keeping warm without causing mass genocide. For say £400 you could get a little fire in place, and it might work well, or be a bit pants, what I can assure you is that you could also spend £2400 and it might work well, or be a bit pants, our place in this world means its only really Serendipity which can bring you to the outcome you want, not the amount of cash or the number of experts you consult, or the number of internet searches and forum chats you research.

As for the Soot, if you have a henry hoover, take the bag out and just leave it turned on when you sweep, get the OH to point it at the right spot and you should be ok, the hoover is easy enough to dust off afterwoods provided you keep it fairly dry, and taking the bag out saves money.

The other thing I would suggest is second hand, if you are Serendipitous on you search of Woodburners "Distance- Nearest first" on ebay, you could end up with a good old lump and pipes for under £50. A tub of fire cement and a sheet of asbestos cut out with a nice dusty saw will do the trick.

With the Blanking pate you should be able to access through a sliding hatch, brush trough the fire, then just stick your hand up the access hatch and brush any crud thats on top of it. Then do that "chim chiminy" dance out the front door and shake all your neigbours hands for luck.

Best of luck ( Go for it!)

* The views expressed by the author are fictious and bear no resemblance to reality, its highly likely the author was high on Body Shop Mango & Advocado body spray at the time, and no liability for loss or damage to person or property resulting from anyone actually being stupid enough to belive said cosmetically influenced individualls opinions really deserves all they get.

[kit-e-kate]

Hiya, when we were opneing a fireplace up (for an open fire- not a wood burner) we found the help and advice of our chimney sweep invaluable. He also gave us the number of a grate builder who was terrific and made it all happen. I'd definitely recommend getting a grate builder rather than just an ordinary builder. The knowledge ours had was invaluable. Cost wasn't too bad either- £350 for the metal fireback fireplace, and £550 for our big tiled fireplace with brick built fire back. (that's just the labour cost- the parts were quite a bit more!)

Totally worth every penny!

[Thomzo]

I got my wood burner for under 300 quid from the yellow and orange diy place using my neighbours oap discount on a Tuesday. It's only a 4kw heater but properly used it heats my large living room and sends enough heat up the stairs to prevent the loo freezing up. It was the only heating I had all winter and I didn't die. I fitted it myself using a small piece of plasterboard to seal off the fireplace and just poked the flue through it. As it's quite small and light enough to move by myself, I can just take the whole contraption out when the chimney sweep comes, although you can, in theory, clean through it.

If you're worried about CO poisoning, then get a detector. There are various types but the battery ones, which last forever, cost about £15 I think. I've got one and have never had a peep out of it when the fire's burning. As for fire risk then just be sensible. Dirty chimneys cause fires as the debris catches so get it cleaned regularly. Avoid having flames roaring out the back and only burn clean, well dried, wood. Don't keep combustible materials near the fire and get a good fire retardant rug for in front of it to save your carpet. Oh, and don't let the cat sit too close, I've known them to catch fire. They get really upset when you throw water over them to put their fur out.

Boboff: The views expressed by the author are fictious and bear no resemblance to reality, its highly likely the author was high on Body Shop Mango & Advocado body spray at the time, and no liability for loss or damage to person or property resulting from anyone actually being stupid enough to belive said cosmetically influenced individualls opinions really deserves all they get.

Ditto

[bonniethomas06]

I think I am inclined to agree Zoe - and to illustrate my point earlier about hysteria, I called a local sweep to give me a quote to line it earlier (he is coming next week) and the conversation went like this:

Me: Hi, I am blah blah, we have a 250 yr old chimney...I hear with a stove it is a good idea to have the flue lined...
Him: Well madam, it is not just a good idea, it is absolutely essential. Without one fumes could leak into your home and PROBABLY KILL YOU!!

FFS!

[MuddyWitch]

We were reliably told that as our chiney was designed for a coal fire it simply couldn't be used for a woodburner. According to our sweep chimneys built to be used with a coal fire are basically just a rough brick tube, which is fine for coal soot but not for the tar that even the best stove creates. Soot can be brushed off the nooks & crasnnies, but tar neds to be abbraded, not possible if your chimney isn't lined.

Tar left in ledges & nooks causes chimney fires which are one of the hardest fires to extinguish and are the most destructive of property, according to my Fireman Uncle.

Also, if your chimney is a 'party' one, as ours is, there are strict regulations as you could cause your neighbour problems with smoke of CO leakage. Lining complies with these.

If your chimney has been sealed for any length of time the old soot will have damaged the mortar joints, especially if your house is old enough to have lime mortar.

All in all a lined chimney is essential if you are going to have a stove. The idea that there were no problems in the past is a bit like saying all women used to give birth at home; why do so many go to hospital these days?... to keep the death rate down!

Yes, lining the chimney is a big expense, but NOT lining it could cost you far more.

MW