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Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:57 pm
by Shirley
I've also posted this on Neeps but thought I'd throw it open for discussion here too.

I've just been to the dentist with the children and we were talking about fluoride in toothpaste - J uses a fluoride-free toothpaste from Weleda which the dentist pretty much said wasn't good enough for children (J was born with a cleft lip and palate and therefore his teeth are prone to decay) - and that to use a toothpaste without fluoride was a bit of a waste of time and that you may just as well brush with water.

Now... she did say that she would be interested in seeing the claims made by Weleda (or any other toothpaste manufacturer for that matter) about how they prevent tooth decay as only fluoride will prevent decay (her words). She also said that conventional toothpaste for children doesn't contain anywhere near enough fluoride in them for our non-fluoridated water and that we should use an adult toothpaste for our children.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on fluoride and natural tooth pastes.

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:27 pm
by Thomzo
When I was a child, I lived in an area that had flouride added to the water. Not realising this, my mother gave me flouride tablets as well. As a result I have very discoloured teeth (called flouridosis). I'm very self concious about it and hate showing my teeth. Whitening toothpaste doesn't help as it's the enamel that's yellow coloured.

Having said that, my teeth are very tough but that didn't stop an unscrupulous dentist from drilling holes in them just so that he could fill them to generate income.

I think it would depend on the child. How responsible is he/she? Can they be relied upon not to swallow the toothpaste? I would campaign against flouride in water. Just because I don't like things being added to water. It should be our choice what we eat and drink.


Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:47 pm
by red
opinions vary so much - personally I think the biggest cause of decay is sugar in diet
next to that is a build up of plaque, the acid attacks the enamel.. so brushing with water would help yes

i understand the way the fluoride works is that when decay starts.. the fluoride stops it - so it does nto prevent decay.. but makes the decay harden and stops it progressing.. i could have that wrong though

my son has very poor fine motor skills and even with his electric tooth brush, does not do a great job, but at age 14 still has no fillings. (touch wood an all that), so alot of it is down to good luck.

I betcha if you went to a different dentist you would get a different opinion.. cos it is all opinion...

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:02 pm
by Urban Ayisha
have any of you tried a completely natural alternative which in arabic is called miswak? it is essentially a twig of the salvadora persica tree. When chewed it has innumerable benefits, it strengthens the gums and prevents tooth decay, assists in eliminating toothaches and prevents further increase of decay which has already set in, eliminates bad odors and improves the sense of taste. It is also said to sharpen the memory, cure headaches, clear the voice and assist in digestion, as well as having spiritual effects.
Seems logical considering that there is huge percentage of the worlds population that have fared very well without toothbrushes and prepacked toothpaste for centuries to great effect!

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:04 pm
by catalyst
sodium flouride is an incredibly toxic susbstance, produced as waste in the aluminium, car and pesticide industries.
the idea of selling this wate product, rather than paying to have it diposed of, was a great idea for those industries, but not so good for us...
it was first put in water by hitlers regime, not to protect teeth but to dumb down the population...
remember that your dentist has been trained with govt and industry backing, and has not questioned the 'facts' given.
i'd say google flouride, read everything, both sides (and look at who is saying what, where their funding comes from etc), then make your own decision.
i did this some years ago, and decided against flouride. as red said, sugar causes decay and we dont need to eat sugar. my childrens teeth are pretty good despite little exposure to flouride, but because they have always had a wholesome varied diet with few sweets and fizzy drinks. but it is quite hard to get hold of flouride free toothpaste here in portugal, we manage.

one place to start with some anti info:

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:34 pm
by Jack

Why give rat poison to your children to cure the problem of too much sugar?

Why do they put rat poison in water to counteract the use of too much sugar even thopugh some people may not use sugar at all?

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:02 am
by Silver Ether
Its evil contolling poison ... If you look at the figures ..done it in the past countries where they fo not bother with the muck, they do not have any higher dental decay than those who do...
Dont ask where cuss I am old and cant remember where ... or is it the fault of the aspertame that was in my diet before and causes memory loss. !

Perhaps she is being controlled by her flouride intake and does as she is told ?

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:36 am
by eccentric_emma
I've just been to the dentist with the children and we were talking about fluoride in toothpaste - J uses a fluoride-free toothpaste from Weleda which the dentist pretty much said wasn't good enough for children (J was born with a cleft lip and palate and therefore his teeth are prone to decay) - and that to use a toothpaste without fluoride was a bit of a waste of time and that you may just as well brush with water.
i had a friend who brushed his teeth with only water for most of his life (he is 27 now) and he has the nicest teeth i've ever seen. i think its more the actual action of brushing rather than the substance you use.

does anybody know if theres a website tellling which water boards in the uk use flouride?

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:54 pm
by the.fee.fairy
Read the book Flouride - Drinking ourselves to death?

It is a great book - but you will never buy flouridated toothpaste again. It give all the arguments for and against, and has lots of statistics and studies to back it up.

I hate flouride almost as much as i hate dentists...

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:13 pm
by QuakerBear
I don't know anything about the flouride debate (thanks for setting me onto it), but Mr. QuakerBear in his biologist capacity has always said that brushing works because of the abrasive nature of the toothbrush bristles. He's strict about how much toothpaste we use, insisting on only the tinyest, lentil sized blob. I used to use a strip accross the whole brush like in the adverts but I haven't noticed any differnece in the health of my teeth since switching to a tiny blob a few years ago.

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:43 pm
by ina
QuakerBear wrote:but I haven't noticed any differnece in the health of my teeth since switching to a tiny blob a few years ago.
But you will eventually notice a difference in the health of your wallet!

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:24 pm
by glenniedragon
I'm sure it's down to brushing technique as much as anything else. It goes with the whole package, if you're concerned about dental health the liklehood is you'll be (trying :roll: ) to follow a decent diet - which I feel is more important anyway

Kind thoughts

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:35 pm
by QuakerBear
Wow Gleniedragon, is the picture next to your comment where you live?

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:39 pm
by glenniedragon
Wouldn't that be fantastic but -No, fraid not! it's a group of roundhouses near us the the boys really love to visit. The insides are just as if the Ironage family have just walked out. They are at the Peat Moors Centre near Glastonbury, Max goes off hunting deer and comes back with imaginary dinner over his shoulder!

Glad you like the picture

Kind thoughts

fluoride in Ireland

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:40 am
by inishindie
A few years ago Derry City Council here in Ireland debated whether to introduce fluoride into the drinking water system. It was not introduced and in fact 25 out of 26 Councils in Northern Ireland rejected fluoridation.

Here are a few of the reasons that influenced the decision that made them say NO to fluoridation.

Fluoride is a powerful poison, a highly effective ingredient of rat and cockroach killers and insecticides, and one of the three most hazardous of industrial pollutants, the other two being arsenic and cyanide.

Fluoride that is used in water treatment is a waste product from the fertilizer industry and being so toxic it is very expensive to get rid of. It is cheaper to put the chemical into the environment than to dispose of it safely.

It is so toxic that there is enough fluoride in a tube of toothpaste to be potentially fatal to a small child. In America all fluoride toothpaste must carry a poisons symbol with a warning to contact the nearest poisons unit if more than a pea size amount of toothpaste is swallowed.

Only 2% of European countries are fluoridated. Most of them banned fluoride from their water supplies in the 1970’s. Holland even went as far as ensuring fluoride could not be introduced by amending their constitution.

Recent worldwide studies involving 480,000 children, found no significant difference in tooth decay between fluoridated and non- fluoridated communities.

There is ample evidence that fluoride is harming people’s teeth. Fluoridation causes dental fluorosis (white flecks on the teeth). This is the first sign that the body is overloaded with fluoride.

Fluoridation is also known to increase osteoporosis a condition which is increasingly prevalent among Irish women in their 30’s and 40’s and not just those in their 50’s.

International research shows links between fluoridated water and bone cancer, arthritis, hip fractures, memory loss, genetic damage, lowered birth rates, allergies including irritable bowel syndrome, depressed thyroid function, immune system damage, infant mortality and lowered IQ.

Fluoridation is a sure way of ensuring that fluoride is spread throughout the environment. Fluoridated water is flushed away from toilets, washing machines, dishwashers, farmyards and garages, ultimately going into streams, rivers, lakes and the sea. Evidence from the USA has shown that fluoride levels in rivers may be a factor in dwindling salmon populations.

Fluoridation is untested and unproven mass medication and as everyone swallows different amounts of water the dose of fluoride is uncontrolled. Drinking four cups of tea a day and brushing your teeth twice a day with fluoridated toothpaste over 10 – 20 years means your fluoride intake could be in the danger limits for crippling skeletal fluorosis (according to the National Research Council of the USA).

Improvement in dental health is really due to better nutrition and better dental hygiene. If people want to increase their fluoride levels for any reason they can refer to their dentist for tablets. This way they are in control of their intake.

Enforced uncontrolled medication without informed consent is a breach of human rights. Would we put Prozac in the water to deal with depression?

Ireland is the only democracy in the world that demands the fluoridation of public drinking water supplies by law. This goes against the notion of freedom of choice for consumers.