Health CARE? I don't think so!

[Milims]

Well I finally have proof that the health care system in this area is less use than custard floor boards! Sorry if you are all fed up to the back teeth with me banging on about my OH and his arthritis - but I just can't help it - sometimes the frustration at the utter stupidity of the people who are supposed to care kinda spills over! After 2 years of banging me head against a wall trying to find some kind of help, information and support in this area I have finally found an angel! It turns out that she has experience of our problem and feels the same way - she is also available for help, information and support in out local hospital - 15 mins away - every week! So how come the doctors and supposed caring professionals have never bothered to tell us that? How come they don't run the educative courses for which they apparenly get funding? How come they don't bother to tell us that as my OH has had 2 unsucessful attempts with the regular disease modifying drugs he's entitiled to be offered the "wonder" drug - that apparently DOES work really well? How can the so called "professional" Rheumatologist sees him for a total of 10 min a YEAR and declare that his condition is under control and ignore the fact that his quality of life and ability to do the things that most people take for granted is nil? How can they say that an almost daily level of 8 on a pain scale of 1 - 10 is under control? Then to add insult to injury I'm so stressed and upset by all that's happened my doc diagnoses me with depression and tells me that I can have counselling (I react badly to drugs) in 2 - 3 weeks. As it's almost 3 weeks since my diagnosis and I've heard nothing, I rang today - to be told that it would be at least another 6 weeks and possibly up to 3 months!! I guess they are hoping that I either cure myself or kill myself! So much for living in one of the most desirable places in the country! DON'T come here - it's a sh*t hole!

OK - rant over - you can come out now! Sorry guys

[Clara]

You have every right to be peed off, rant away. I´m so glad that you have at last found someone who has given you the key. Can you imagine how many people suffer or die each year, not because they are untreatable, but because they are not articulate or persistant?

I guess they are hoping that I either cure myself or kill myself!

oh don´t even go there.....OH received a first letter about two years ago from the community team that he was referred to after being diagnosed with mild depression a couple of years before that, in the two years that it took them to write to him he survived two suicide attempts.....worst still the drug he was given "in the meantime" was seroxat, yep, the one that makes people with mild depression suicidal

[Milims]

So sorry Clara It's unbelieveable!

[AXJ]

Trouble with SSRIs (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) such as prozac or serosat (I guess), is that they should be presecibed with a tranquilliser to start with, this helps avoid the sudden desire to do one's self in, which is an initial stage response when reanimimating coming out of depression on SSRIs. Major problem about depression (as I understand it) is the lack of will to make change. The SSRIs change that state before the individual has time to adjust, and they may think the unthinkable. Not suggesting for one minute that is the solution for everyone. But doctors' reitcence to presecibe 'mother's llittle helper' at the same time as an SSRI actually flies in the face of the initial research and prescribing recommendations.

At the end of the day doctors are often crap, as illustrated above. I feel deeply for both your situations. Never forget that you are entitled to a second opinion.

[Clara]

So sorry Clara It's unbelieveable!

You and live and you learn eh? Even more unbelievably, the very gp he was under after his "incidents" a couple of years later prescribed him Zyban (the new wonder drug that was an anti-depressant until they discovered that it made depressed people go off cigarettes) to kick the fags.....sure enough after one dose he was in an absolutely awful state.

[Clara]

Trouble with SSRIs (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) such as prozac or serosat (I guess), is that they should be presecibed with a tranquilliser to start with, this helps avoid the sudden desire to do one's self in, which is an initial stage response when reanimimating coming out of depression on SSRIs. Major problem about depression (as I understand it) is the lack of will to make change. The SSRIs change that state before the individual has time to adjust, and they may think the unthinkable. Not suggesting for one minute that is the solution for everyone. But doctors' reitcence to presecibe 'mother's llittle helper' at the same time as an SSRI actually flies in the face of the initial research and prescribing recommendations.

At the end of the day doctors are often crap, as illustrated above. I feel deeply for both your situations. Never forget that you are entitled to a second opinion.

I think one of the major problems with treatment for depression is the fact that we have been quick to accept the "chemical-imbalance" theory, because that is something we can deal with logically rather than the messy arena of peoples life circumstances and emotions and the fact that they might need working through.Here´s an interesting article for you from The Guardians Bad Science column...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... badscience

[Milims]

AXJ - a second opinion would be good - but unfortunately round here it means an uncomfortable, debilitating hours journey to see the SAME rheumatologist!
Clara - you're right - they too quickly blame the "chemicals" - probably because real life is just a bit to "ikky" for them to cope with. I'm pretty darned sure that if Chris had had better and more appropriate treatment from the start we wouldn't be in this situation now. It seems that between Newcastle and Edinburgh there is a health care black hole - unless you have shed loads of money to pay for it they fob you off with a pill and hope you disappear!

[AXJ]

I think one of the major problems with treatment for depression is the fact that we have been quick to accept the "chemical-imbalance" theory, because that is something we can deal with logically rather than the messy arena of peoples life circumstances and emotions and the fact that they might need working through.

Completely agree with you, massively over prescribed. Trubs is that there are plenty of brain damaged people who fried themselves with designer drugs in the first place, and clearly have a chemical imbalance and do benefit from the remedial.

Ecstasy works, there is no question of that, which is why it is so popular, and it works on the same chemicals and receptors in the brain. SSRIs definitely sort out a lack of serotonin. If you don't have a lack of serotonin clearly you don't need them.

I read the article, thanks for that. Nothing I have not heard before, although I have to say that I thought the writer was a bit of a jerk, yes he illustrated that there has been some cover ups of negative research in the area of SSRIs. One result of that negative research was the recommendation of the prescription of tranquillisers in the early stages of recovery using SSRIs.

He made some cheap jab at big Pharm concerning fishoil, when there is no question that choline and inositol (Lecithin) are two things that one can get from fish (amongst other sources) and are actually good for the cognitive processes and many other things besides, the research backed up "the old wives tale" that fish is good for the brains.

You're a sophisticated reader, so you understand this doesn't mean that they're necessarily rubbish drugs, but you also understand that this is dodgy behaviour, all the same.

Indeed, so it's an article about naughty companies, not about the efficacy of the drugs when administered to the correct patient.

For what it is worth, having one child who appeared to all intents and purposes to have mild ADHD. I looked into the possible 'cures', I found that the main drug used is a stimulant like cocaine or amphetamines. So, I gave him an expresso coffee every breakfast with a teaspoon of honey. Sorted mate

[AXJ]

AXJ - a second opinion would be good - but unfortunately round here it means an uncomfortable, debilitating hours journey to see the SAME rheumatologist!
Clara - you're right - they too quickly blame the "chemicals" - probably because real life is just a bit to "ikky" for them to cope with. I'm pretty darned sure that if Chris had had better and more appropriate treatment from the start we wouldn't be in this situation now. It seems that between Newcastle and Edinburgh there is a health care black hole - unless you have shed loads of money to pay for it they fob you off with a pill and hope you disappear!

Sorry to hear that Milims, that is totally out of order, people have killed for less.

In my locality we have two health centres in walking distance, one is a like a big doctors' surgury with 24hr A&E, the other is like a small hospital with x-ray, path labs etc.

After that there are two Big Hospitals which are available directly by bus. Basque Health Care is amongst the best in Europe, and is free at point of delivery (or what ever the expression is).

What's it like down in Spain Clara?

[ocailleagh]

I think the healthcare situation is pretty much the same all over, but you do have my sympathies. Have you tried herbal antidepressants? I'm currently using rhodiola rosea, I've only just discovered it, and so far, its wonderful! I was given half a tub of it by a friend, and when they ran out I bought some more from simplysupplements.com. Its adaptagenic, kind of like ginseng, so keeps you feeling calm but alert. Though it won't calm you if you're already excited, and it will keep you awake if taken too late. I tend not to take it after 8pm at the latest.

[Clara]

In my locality we have two health centres in walking distance, one is a like a big doctors' surgury with 24hr A&E, the other is like a small hospital with x-ray, path labs etc.

After that there are two Big Hospitals which are available directly by bus. Basque Health Care is amongst the best in Europe, and is free at point of delivery (or what ever the expression is).

What's it like down in Spain Clara?

Well pretty much the same I guess in terms of accessibility, though we have a helipad for life-or.death scenarios.

In the end my daughter was born in hospital and the aftercare was the most shocking thing. The nurses don´t see themselves there to do anything other than medical stuff, because traditionally your whole extended family has turned up to help, so it doesn´t matter that you´ve had your womb cut open and its midnight you´ve just come out of recovery and you can´t turn the light off to sleep *sucked teeth* ¿DONDE ESTA TU FAMILIA?......cheers would you just turn the light off you witch. All in all they don´t seem to do bedside manner, when I turned up after 48 hours in labour, all the OB could do was yell, yes YELL, at me for not coming for the CS he scheduled the previous week - BTW both me and babe were perfectly fine when we arrived, though I had trialled labour at home against their wishes (breech baby), and that pees them off cos they really aren´t used to proactive patients making their own minds up. I could go on and on about it I won´t.....

[AXJ]

I think the healthcare situation is pretty much the same all over, but you do have my sympathies. Have you tried herbal antidepressants? I'm currently using rhodiola rosea, I've only just discovered it, and so far, its wonderful! I was given half a tub of it by a friend, and when they ran out I bought some more from simplysupplements.com. Its adaptagenic, kind of like ginseng, so keeps you feeling calm but alert. Though it won't calm you if you're already excited, and it will keep you awake if taken too late. I tend not to take it after 8pm at the latest.

Sounds very interesting, has natural SSRI effect along with boostig dopamine (I have read). Sounds like it could also be very adictive. Although I am not currently depressed, I am going to seek it out, I used to love ginseng.

Rhodiola rosea's effects potentially are related to optimizing serotonin and dopamine levels due to monoamine oxidase inhibition and its influence on opioid peptides such as beta-endorphins, although these specific neurochemical mechanisms have not been clearly documented with scientific studies.

[mrsflibble]

Private counselling worked for me. it's an 18month waiting list round here for NHS counselling and I was planning how and when to jump in front of a train with my last bad bout of depression; 1 locum GP never told me about the possibility of private, sliding scale counselling and told me it'd be £45 per hour, and another offered me prozac.
I ended up at my local under fives health clinic in a massive state. a health visitor referred me to the local WHCM group practice and they told me they could treat me for £3 a week, AND work around jim's shift patterns.
I got the drugs too though because it was either that or voluntarily commit myself.

Mind you, I am getting massive value for money out of the NHS since being diagnosed with hypoparathyroidism.

[ocailleagh]

I think the healthcare situation is pretty much the same all over, but you do have my sympathies. Have you tried herbal antidepressants? I'm currently using rhodiola rosea, I've only just discovered it, and so far, its wonderful! I was given half a tub of it by a friend, and when they ran out I bought some more from simplysupplements.com. Its adaptagenic, kind of like ginseng, so keeps you feeling calm but alert. Though it won't calm you if you're already excited, and it will keep you awake if taken too late. I tend not to take it after 8pm at the latest.

Sounds very interesting, has natural SSRI effect along with boostig dopamine (I have read). Sounds like it could also be very adictive. Although I am not currently depressed, I am going to seek it out, I used to love ginseng.

Rhodiola rosea's effects potentially are related to optimizing serotonin and dopamine levels due to monoamine oxidase inhibition and its influence on opioid peptides such as beta-endorphins, although these specific neurochemical mechanisms have not been clearly documented with scientific studies.

Yeah, it's SSRI-like action did worry me a little but, after a little research I decided it would be quite safe. I found no history of addiction at all, otherwise I would have steered clear of it.

[AXJ]

Yeah, it's SSRI-like action did worry me a little but, after a little research I decided it would be quite safe. I found no history of addiction at all, otherwise I would have steered clear of it.

"Suck it and see" as is said...

Morphine was the cure for opium addiction, Heroin was the cure for Morphine addiction... anything that hits dopamine receptors is hittting the reward response, same as cocaine, heroin and spliff (too name but a few) personally for me it is all propaganda from the big pharm who would prefer us not to self medicate... damn them.