A Decent Annual Salary

[TheGoodEarth]

Good post skiesabove. I think if you are determined enough and enjoying yourself whilst doing it then you can live on peanuts. I remember being 19 and stranded in Lyon, France with no money, no fuel in our van and only a packet of Smash left to eat but we still managed to get home - long story I was much happier then than 10 years later when I was earning much more. True freedom I guess.

The problem is when you grow up and have commitments and responsibilities to your family to provide a decent standard of living you have to screw the nut and try and provide a decent regular income and some stability. Boring but important

[TheGoodEarth]

If someone is having difficulty paying those why are the running up others (please believe me that this is not criticism directed at you BT - it is simply that, having experieced, such stress,(xhusb!) I now don't understand how people willingly put themselves in such a position)

I think you hit the nail on the head Milims, it's not until you have experienced it that you can understand it and decide on a different path.

[oldjerry]

I'll try and explain what I meant by status,but though think I know what I mean,it may well make no sense!It's something to do with personal self esteem; most people(in the west anyhow) manage to provide food and shelter for themselves and their family,but as well as this they will have standards by which they judge how well they are living their lives,and they maintain their self esteem by living up to these standards.Although my inclination is to say 'I couldn't give a monkeys what anyone thinks of me because nobody elses opion or way of life is of any value',that isn't really true.I'll never be Ghandi (too itchy) but if I could travel even 2 footsteps down that path,personally,I'd feel quite good about myself.More practically,I cant say how much I admire people in flats/with small gardens window boxes etc who grow in every available space,I've got loads of land,and waste so much.Their efforts,when compared to mine make me question my own status.
There ,told you it wouldn't make any sense!

[Green Aura]

Makes perfect sense oj. Maslow called it self-actualisation -it's the pinnacle of his hierarchy of needs and only achievable once you've covered all the other, more basic needs like food, shelter etc. It's the thing that gives you self-esteem and a sense of true worth.

It's just a shame that in today's society most people think they can only get it with a huge salary

[Milims]

It's the thing that gives you self-esteem and a sense of true worth. It's just a shame that in today's society most people think they can only get it with a huge salary

How well put GA And how sad that it is seen as the "norm"

[Susie]

It concerns me that people have to decide which bills to pay. Surely the priority is to pay the essential ones, electricity, water, food etc. If someone is having difficulty paying those why are the running up others (please believe me that this is not criticism directed at you BT - it is simply that, having experieced, such stress,(xhusb!) I now don't understand how people willingly put themselves in such a position) I'd say it's more fulfilling to simply enjoy the company of your loved ones than to try to make it more exciting by throwing money at it. It makes me sad that people argue and destroy themselves over something as dead and unfeeling as money

People can't always pay the essential ones.

[Flo]

People can't always pay the essential ones.

Sometimes this can be because people are not good money managers and sometimes it is because they genuinely don't have the income. Sorting one from the other is very hard.

[Keaniebean]

I'm a firm believer that money only brings misery, so long as you have enough to feed, house and clothe yourself ( I don't mean in versace either ).
I was once in a relationship with the preverbail rich arab, I was taken to meet his parents and I have NEVER met such mean and miserable people in the whole of my life. They decided the moment I walked through their door that I was not good enough ( read, not rich enough and didn't go to boarding school), and the relationship eventually broke down 4 years later because the pressure coming from his parents was too much. I think in the end they litterally paid him to leave me ( and our 14 month old daughter).

My husband now and I used to earn £55 ish between us and only had my daughter from above relationship to look after. Then we bought a house and had another child and we were constantly arguing about money, we just never seemed to have enough and worked up some debts. Now our third child is almost 4, I had to give up my job so our income now is only £35K between us, we still have the house, live in London with 3 children, 1 car (rust bucket) and have a very small garden. We have never felt happier and even manage to pay off some of our debt each month, we managed to afford new windows in December and have almost paid for them already. Our shopping is £70 a week and we haven't been on holiday ever, although we managed 3 days camping 3 years ago.

I grow veg in every avaliable inch in the garden and have two chickens in the 12 foot square back garden. At the moment we are lucky with the mortgage rates being so low, so our mortgage on a three bed terrace in London is only £800 a month, if this stayed the same we could easily afford to live on even less than we do once we have paid off our loan (next May) and our debts ( within the next 6 months).

I would say that we could get away with, (a month) £800 mortgage, £130 council tax, £ 120 energy bills, £60 phone bills (including pay as you go mobiles for three of us), £40 water and £500 for every thing else including sh opping for 5. So that's £1590, which is £19080 a year before taxes. That would be about £25 K a year for 5 of us in London, but tht is with current costs, obviously this would change if bills/mortgage went up.

A decent salary is obviously dependent on your circumstances, but happiness is far more important.

[AngeB]

We've had a few unexpected occurrences that has made us unable to pay our bills this month and only some next month (including a month of statutory sick pay - about the same amount as jobseekers allowance), so it isn't always a case of mismanagement.

We decided that since we were never going to own our own house, that we'd rent the best we could afford and it leaves us with very little extra each month. While I'm very happy with this (as long as I can afford the odd bottle of wine ), I find other people's expectations a bit much. Our friends and families have more disposable income and the expectations are that we should all have the same amount. When I went to my niece's christening, by the time we'd paid for petrol to Newcastle, a room for 2 nights and gifts we were penniless, and the looks of disappointment/disapproval of everyone when we said we couldn't afford to go for a curry with both families left me in tears for the rest of the night. A bit annoying really but hopefully over time people will start to realise that spending time together needn't be an expensive event!

[Milims]

Our friends and families have more disposable income and the expectations are that we should all have the same amount. When I went to my niece's christening, by the time we'd paid for petrol to Newcastle, a room for 2 nights and gifts we were penniless, and the looks of disappointment/disapproval of everyone when we said we couldn't afford to go for a curry with both families left me in tears for the rest of the night.

How sad that it didn't occur to them to each put in an extra couple of quid - which they wouldn't really miss - so that you could all enjoy family time together. I guess it's an example of how money ends up being put before caring.

[Milims]

People can't always pay the essential ones.

Sometimes this can be because people are not good money managers and sometimes it is because they genuinely don't have the income. Sorting one from the other is very hard.

I fully understand that there are occasions when something unexpected happens and income falls short of necessary expenditure. But if it is a regular occurance that the necesaries can't be paid for, surely the logical thing to do is to look at what is going on and make changes to priorities. When I left my x he ran up £2000 bills in my name for things like gas, electricity, mortgage arears & phone - all necessities (but not to the level he was using them!) as well as others. On only a part time, not very big, salary and tax credits I had to pay them within a couple of months, as well as keeping up with the regular bills and taking care of the needs of the kids (and just before christmas!). I learned frugality the hard way but have never looked back.
I fear that I may be sounding like an arrogant know it all - I honestly don't mean to I just think that all too often money is seen as the cause of and solution to a more basic problem that really we should be taking personal responsibility for.

[AngeB]

I can relate to that Milims, and actually see the problems we're having over the next couple of months as a positive step for us. In fact last night I made draught excluders - been meaning to for ages, but it's only now that we do need to cut our bills down to a minimum that I'm making lots of changes that I should have done ages ago. We certainly aren't wasting anything at the moment and hopefully the 2 months will be enough for us to set habits of a lifetime

[Milims]

Good for you Ange! I do hope that things aren't too difficult for you, but I'll bet with your positive outlook and dynamism the next couple of months will be a lot easier than you could hope for! They say that old habits die hard but new habits die harder - with a vengeance! You know, of course, that there will be lots of support and Ishy frugality tips to be had on here! Good luck

[boboff]

AngeB, that is not a good possition to be in at all.
The family curry thing really struck a nerve.
I am lucky that my Sister has just had a baby and given up work, so really picks up on the need to budget properly when we all go out together. although the spot the meat Chilli and four tonne of soggy rice she served last time we went I think was over the top!

The only thing I should say is something which is going to sound really stupid to you, and to many others hear who live close to the edge financially. We should all try and have savings equivalent to about 6 months salary in case of emergency. Yes I know, as if, but it is a given by many that this is really what we should all be aiming for, to cover the really bad times. That doesn't help though does it! Sorry.

What ever happens stay happy, and don't get upset about the curry, it gave them all the squits!

[Keaniebean]

AngeB, I have found one of the other ishers blogs VERY useful, although she hasn't been round here for a while liskeguardjayne writes it daily and often has some fab tips on how to be frugal.

http://frugalincornwall.blogspot.com/

As far as other peoples expectations go, do what's best for you and s0d the rest, as Boboff says, it gave them all the squits anyway.