Would you give it all up?

[killing moon]

Hello Andy & Dave et al,
I had an idea recently, and i wanted to find out how many people would be interested in joining in with this idea.
Most of us live in cities, as this is the way that government has encouraged society to live. Rural property is expensive because planning laws restrict new building in rural areas.
Thus we have all become products of a consumerist society, and it takes people such as yourselves & those others who believe in finding a way to opt out of consumerist society to make a difference [love the book by the way]. Because of the high price of land in the UK, it is difficult to establish a fully self-sufficient family or commune. Many people move abroad [as i did] to find cheaper property and land. But i miss old blighty [frenchies just don't share our sense of humour...]
My idea is this:- i'd like to move back to the UK next year and start a self-sufficient commune on around 10-30 acres, which should eventualy support around 4 to 8 people. Or around 4-5 permanent residents and 3-4 seasonal workers [or WWOOFers] But i can't do this alone - i need people who share my non-consumerist ideals.
Who would be interested in joining such a venture?
Ultimately, i may need some people who can share some of the capital costs [20-50% depending on the location]
Land always seems expensive, but it gets far more expensive as time goes on. Most young people in the UK now are unable to choose to live a more self-sufficient rural life because of the disparity in property prices, which is wrong, wrong, wrong!
Please leave a message if this venture appeals to you.
Suggestions for locations & land costs would also be welcome.
Andy & Dave - you can subsidise this venture with your book money, No?
[Ha!]
The main problem is overcoming planning laws, or stretching finances to buy a proper farmstead. Look forward to hearing from you. KM

[mybarnconversion]

Rural property is expensive because planning laws restrict new building in rural areas.

Not true - rural property is different.

A three or four bedroom house on a smallish plot in the country is far cheaper than the same size plot in a city or suburb. Country properties are often larger and therefore seem more expensive.

People have moved into cities since medieval times ... to suggest that all those city dwellers now should be able to relocate to the country is madness.

Most young people in the UK now are unable to choose to live a more self-sufficient rural life because of the disparity in property prices, which is wrong, wrong, wrong!

If they work hard then they can make whatever choices they like, which is right, right right!

Don't want to sound argumentative, but to suggest that we are all owed a piece of the countryside to do with as we want is simply insulting to those of us who work hard to protect and manage it carefully and sustainably.

[killing moon]

Mybarnconversion, thankyou for your thoughts
I'm not wholly savvy on rural property prices in Wales, but as an experienced builder, i have a fair idea of property prices in Devon/Somerset and Avon/Wiltshire.
The average UK wage is around 16/17K, with a 2.5x mortgage, this gives a buying power of 41k for a single person, or 82k for a couple.
In Devon/Somerset 82k may just be enough to buy a small flat in a town.
I'd be glad to hear about any available properties in Wales or elsewhere for under 100k that have over 20 acres land and potential [Planning permission or renovation potential] for a 3/4 bedroom property.
Kind regards,
K.M.

[ina]

The average UK wage is around 16/17K, with a 2.5x mortgage,

Ergh, no - the last I heard on radio 4, the average wage is around £22.000 at the moment. And I think that you get more than 2.5x mortgage - or at least you did, before the latest credit crunch.

And it's not just the young who can't choose how to live. There are a few properties in rural areas around here under £100.000 - but NOT with any land to speak of - if you are lucky, a bit of garden!

[grahoom]

The average UK wage is around 16/17K, with a 2.5x mortgage,

Ergh, no - the last I heard on radio 4, the average wage is around £22.000 at the moment. And I think that you get more than 2.5x mortgage - or at least you did, before the latest credit crunch.

And it's not just the young who can't choose how to live. There are a few properties in rural areas around here under £100.000 - but NOT with any land to speak of - if you are lucky, a bit of garden!

I think the majority of people earn lower than 22K even though that might be the average, it doesn't mean that A lot of people are earning that much a year.

[grahoom]

Hello Andy & Dave et al,


My idea is this:- i'd like to move back to the UK next year and start a self-sufficient commune on around 10-30 acres, which should eventualy support around 4 to 8 people. Or around 4-5 permanent residents and 3-4 seasonal workers [or WWOOFers] But i can't do this alone - i need people who share my non-consumerist ideals.
Who would be interested in joining such a venture?

a friend of mine got involved with a couple of people who set up something similiar in France. He spend a few summers out there with them sorting out courses, and retreats - in the winter he spent his time back in the UK.

I've thought it would be good to set up something similiar - but you would have to make sure you found the right balance of people are involved in the project. - good luck!

[Annpan]

Sounds like it would be alot of hard work to get the right people... think of flat share, but on a self-sufficiency level...

I wouldn't go into a financial investment with anyone. Perhaps if everyone had their own cottage with garden as part of a bigger village set up... I wouldn't want to share living quarters or any 'shared ownership' deal... if you managed to get a small group of houses bought up by a group of friends, then rented a few field too I could see it working.

[Thurston Garden]

I have looked at various existing sites in the UK, some on the TV before we ditched it and latterly on t'internet. The theory does appeal to me, but the thought of it actually makes me shudder. I got quite excited when Findhorn was to be on the telly but could not watch it - there's no way I could handle being part of that type of life.

I would love, at some time in the future to build a straw bale house, be off grid, with a few acres, but OH is never going to be up for it. Labour is something that would be in short supply and thats where the community bit appeals in theory. In practice I doubt if I could handle it. I need my own (our own!) space.

Perhaps spending years at sea ruined it for me. I always got on really well with a handful of people, lived happily with the majority but there was always a dozen or so that ruined the whole thing. Every ship had them. Every village has them.

Lammas was quite close to my ideal and had it been in sunny Scotland, then I would have been tempted, but as I said earlier, I doubt if OH would be up for it. That's not to say he is not like minded, but he likes his Edinburgh job and dipping into city life from time to time.

Lammashas a good website and it might give some food for thought.

[Dave]

Andy & Dave - you can subsidise this venture with your book money, No?

I'm glad you included the - ha! If a point comes where we're top of the best-sellers list then we might have something to invest in a project like this!

As a single bloke who doesn't drive I can't help thinking a rural lifestyle is not for me at this point in time. That's not to say I wouldn't consider it in the future but at least for now if I had the money I'd much rather invest into something like the Co-housing project in Stroud - where I could escape into town every once in a while and there were links to public transport.

Also I think Thurston Garden and everyone on this thread make some good points about communal living; I've been in shared houses for years and on the whole I've got on with everyone but there have been some that have gone horribly, horribly wrong. I think for anything like this to work there has to be a certain amount of personal space.

Having said all that if you find the right people I've no doubt this could work - good luck Killing Moon (is the name an Echo and the Bunnymen reference by any chance?)

[Amaranth]

Other options are for groups of people to get together and buy houses on the same street or adjacent streets. Then all sorts of projects can be done cooperatively.

A second is for people to buy a building with a number of flats in it. Then the flats can be rented or owned by like minded people.

[Andy Hamilton]

Book money, ha the place our book is printed has gone into receivership.

I don't think we have sold anything like enough books to even thinking about buying a tent, perhaps in 2010!

Dave and I just visited what could be described as a communal living space today. A small farm in Swidon. That space worked I think because plenty of people got on, this is really what needs to happen first.

I am starting to think as well that the only truley eco housing is to renovate existing buildings not to use more resources building a new place. Mind you if I suddenly came into a big amount of money I might become a hypocrite.

[thecornflake]

I was thinking about a similar idea recently after reading Chas Griffin's book More Scenes from a smallholding, where he talks about a trust buying up a large (100 acre) farm and then having a community of say 10-20 families living on plots all helping each other, producing their own food and also selling the surplus, maybe making crafts and selling them as well to bring in money etc. Very similar to an Eco Village.

I think the two main issues would firstly be getting to money together and secondly getting planning for the additional dwellings. Also how the ownership was handled would be a problem. I was thinking it could be run like the housing co-ops that are around.

Like Thurston, I don't think my wife would ever want to go as far as me in this regard, growing a few of our oon vegetables is about her limit. One day though I may convince her moving to a smallholding somewhere would be a great idea. Until then I can still dream.

[red]

Book money, ha the place our book is printed has gone into receivership.

.

i hope that does not give you hassle

problem with community things like this.. is you could spend far too much of your time having meetings and voting on stuff...

but then, I am not really a people person

[the.fee.fairy]

if I had the money I'd much rather invest into something like the Co-housing project in Stroud - where I could escape into town every once in a while and there were links to public transport.

Tell me more Dave...This has caught my eye!

[Dave]

Hello Fee, if you've not heard of it before co-housing is a way of shared living whilst maintaining personal space. Which sounds right up my street, there's a link to their website here http://www.cohousing.org.uk/