God preserve us...........

[Martin]

hidden away at 9.50 on BBC2 was a programme called "Wonderland" (well worth using iplayer to watch.........)
A documentary about a bunch of "end timers" on a coach trip in Israel........be afraid, be downright ruddy petrified!

[Stonehead]

hidden away at 9.50 on BBC2 was a programme called "Wonderland" (well worth using iplayer to watch.........)
A documentary about a bunch of "end timers" on a coach trip in Israel........be afraid, be downright ruddy petrified!

Google the Rapture Index...

[Masco&Bongo]

I've watched a few of the Wonderland series recently.... they are all very bizarre. Didn't catch last night's though.... may indeed use this iPlayer thing....

[Martin]

I googled the rapture index.........

[Masco&Bongo]

I also googled it.... I actually found the FAQ's to be most *ahem* interesting.....

[QuakerBear]

Rapture's actually quite a new theory, it started in the early nineteenth centurey. However the spirt of Rapture, i.e. a belief that everythings about to end has been a persistant theme in Christianity and some of the Jewish movements that imediately preceded Christianity. What worries me is the fact that belief in Rapture, literal interpretations of the Bible and the imminent end is growing. God gave me reason and I don't see why I should turn down his gift. Reason should be applied to all aspects of religion (all religion, spirituality, faith), including analysis of religious texts and theories, it doesn't knock it down and it can be wonderfully enhancing.

I've thought quite abit about this and about ideas of salvation and heaven and one of the conclusions I've come to is that I can't make myself believe in these theories if I don't have Faith. There's no on and off button to turn faith on. One can't choose to have Faith as so many Evangelical groups tell you to do. The best we can all do is be honest with ourselves, each other and God. If faith isn't there, it can't be forced and we must work with the data we have available and try to live the best lives we can with what we've got.

So I'm not worried about Rapture. I think....

[Smooth Hound]

My god is mother nature,

[oldfella]

My god is mother nature,

I go with that

[Martin]

having seen the trailer for what's on Channel 4 at 9 in similar vein, I think I'll give that one a miss (I fear for the safety of the tv, as I would be prompted to throw things!)

[QuakerBear]

I know what you mean Martin. I get terribly frustrated by the, "if English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me" crowd.

Aaarrgh, rage.......

[mrsflibble]

my hubby and i were discussing this last night, spurred on by the documentary on ch4. How can you prove the bible is the true word of god when it's been translated so many times from it's original form?!
to me my god is all around me, in everything, nature etc. I believe in fate, but also that we can change our own fate with our actions, to every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
I believe in reincarnation.
i dont follow a structured religion but I do hold some major values which I shall pass to my darling little one:
be kind to others,
give the respect which you'd like to receive,
don't try and convert people to your way of thinking, if someone is happy leave them alone.
do what makes you happy so long as it doesn't cross the first two points,
don't believe everything you read, but read it to make up your own mind- this one is why I know quite a bit about the bible, christianity and judaism- I have studied them as an "unbelieveing" outsider.

I am an ordained minister licensed to perform weddings, baptisms and to preach- but I don't use it as I'm against trying to convert people to my way of thinking. the certificate is a talking point though.

[QuakerBear]

Dear Mrs. Fibble,

There's an awful lot of confusion about what the Bible actually is.

There are groups who accept the King James Version as the literal word of God and refuse to accept that it's been translated from Tinddal and Hebrew, Latin and Greek. Such groups will argue that English came before Hebrew.

At the other end of the spectrum there are those who believe that the Bible is the work of Man, but has been inspired by the Holy Spirit and also that it's not the only such work.

In between there's a wide variety, including churches who believe that only thier pastor/leader/priest/elder genuinely understands what's been writen.

What concerns me about these different understandings tough is that children are brought up in a situation where they have not access to other interpretations. Children can grow into adults who only believe because they don't know about any other possibilities. To my mind, if a faith, way of life or ethos is true, it will stand up to testing and scholarly examination. If someone knows of all the other possibilities and then chooses to return to their faith that's all the better.

Peoples interpretations of the Bible is a througherly interesting topic, if a little worrying at times.

I know what you mean about not wanting to be preached at as well. I'm very much a Liberal Quaker but my interest in other peoples faith and my willingness to engage with leaflet hander outers does mean that I often get preached at. I try and remember that they're doing it because they genuinely believe they've found something wonderful and they want to share it with me and 'save' me. :)

[Martin]

being a long-time agnostic/"I just don't know", the wisest comment I've heard on the subject was from a lovely spiritualist lady....I'd explained to her that the "bloke with a white beard sitting on a cloud" just didn't compute - she grinned and tapped my chest and said "pray to the god - in there~"
-that DID make sense!
Like many people here I'm very comfortable with paganism - to me if there is "something else" it's in the wonders of nature, not man-made edifices or writings. The older I get, the more tolerant I'm becoming of sincere, gentle faiths.......if catholicism gets you through the night, so be it - I've met good sincere christians, hindus, buddhists, sikhs etc. of all sorts of denominations and cannot help but respect that it "works for them" - I do start getting cross when fundamentalism of whatever flavour rears it's evil head - like those two recent documentaries, in which they were preaching hate in the name of the god of love.........(rather makes you wish for vengeful thunderbolts!)

[baldowrie]

I listen to Radio 2 every day on the schools run and they have religious 'preachers' on, changing each time. The Christan one was on the over day and I found myself agreeing to what he said.

He basically said it doesn't matter who or what you believe, may be nothing at all, the work of your 'god' is on how you live your life. I.e. if you live a good and peaceful life your god is working. He also went on to say how extremist in all religions are the ones that cause conflict.


Yep spot on, much blood has been spilt in the name of a god!

[QuakerBear]

I've never quite understood that God is love, but likes to hate thing

Martin I wonder if your friend was a Quaker, we call the God in everyone 'The Light' and it's the one universal belief among Quakers.

Anyway, this is a self-surfficiancy forum and not a religious forum and I've probably said too much already on religion so tatty bye for now.