IS BARTER LEGAL?

[invisiblepiper]

Hmmm - here's a query. I was just in town there - typical Saturday afternoon - swapping a jar or two of jam for other items. Swapping with friends that is - no stall or anything. I was informed by one friend that it is actually illegal to do so, mutterings of 'Black Market Goods'.
So, after that waffle - is bartering legal? ( Scots Law Version - if anyone knows?)

I wonder if it depends on quantity swapped and suchlike - or whether you swap with a shop rather than a private individual?

Comments?

[Penny Lane]

Just found this from http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/bartering . Hope it helps :)

The exchange of goods or services without the use of money as currency.

Barter is a contract wherein parties trade goods or commodities for other goods, as opposed to sale or exchange of goods for money. Barter is not applicable to contracts involving land, but solely to contracts relating to goods and services. For example, when a tenant exchanges the performance of various maintenance tasks around a house for free room and board, a barter has taken place.

[MikeM]

Hmmm - here's a query. I was just in town there - typical Saturday afternoon - swapping a jar or two of jam for other items. Swapping with friends that is - no stall or anything. I was informed by one friend that it is actually illegal to do so, mutterings of 'Black Market Goods'.
So, after that waffle - is bartering legal? ( Scots Law Version - if anyone knows?)

I wonder if it depends on quantity swapped and suchlike - or whether you swap with a shop rather than a private individual?

Comments?

what utter rubbish, of course barter is perfectly legal. Makes you wonder where some people get their information from.
Even in this nanny state we live in they haven't invaded peoples private lives to that extent!!!

[Graye]

Of course it's legal!

The only people who would be even remotely interested is the Inland Revenue and this would ONLY be if the "money's worth" was substantially different as they would see some sort of business transaction with an ulterior motive (probably to do with dodging tax) if you were bartering business stock for services when they couldn't be shown to be worth more or less the same amount. This would only be in the business arena too, so unless you normally sell jam as a business and used a few jars to barter for something else it wouldn't apply anyway. And frankly they would have better things to do than pursue a few jars of jam etc. I know that barter of business items do have to be included in your business accounts in strictness but I can't see them making a major scene about it if you didn't, assuming you could make your accounts balance somehow. Imagine the scenario when they wanted to work out the value of the jar of jam to see if there was liability on your private bartering. They would have to take into account ALL the expenses of producing it (raw ingredients, cooking costs, part of your motoring costs to fetch the supplies, part of the expenses of your home in connection with producing the jam and storing it, part of your phone bill for talking about it, etc, etc. You would almost certainly come up with a loss!

[ina]

I can't see any law stopping me from making a present of jam to a friend, and the same friend then making a present of a dozen eggs to me! I'm doing it all the time...

[invisiblepiper]

[quote="Graye"]Of course it's legal!

Imagine the scenario when they wanted to work out the value of the jar of jam to see if there was liability on your private bartering. They would have to take into account ALL the expenses of producing it (raw ingredients, cooking costs, part of your motoring costs to fetch the supplies, part of the expenses of your home in connection with producing the jam and storing it, part of your phone bill for talking about it, etc, etc.


thankyou for the replies so far - both insightful and reassuring! I love the idea of painstakingly working out the value of a jar of jam - I have no business head so the concept is indeed laughable.
I think that my critical commenter was referring to the tax aspect - definitely beneath the radar on that one!!!

[Thomzo]

I agree with the tax aspect. I imagine, also, that if you went into business making goods which you then barter for other goods, instead of money, all the normal rules would apply. For instance, if you made cakes which you then took to a garage and swapped for petrol, then HMRC would want the VAT on the petrol and environmental health would want to check out your kitchen.

Zoe

[mrsflibble]

however, aparently, if your friend looks after your child and you give them a gift for doing so, THAT is illeagal... to gain anything from the act of looking after your child your friend would have to be registered as a childminder according to local council directives from a few years ago. trying to find an article to back me up....



nope. can't find one; but next time Tea has soph, she'll still be getting babysitting or some biscuits or something in return.

[ina]

however, aparently, if your friend looks after your child and you give them a gift for doing so, THAT is illeagal...

Well, you don't give them a gift for doing so, you give them a gift because they are nice people! What's wrong with that? Who wants to prove that you did something because of something particular they did?

[mrsflibble]

exactly my way of thinking.

[Annpan]

I think the rule only applies if there is a regular agreement - like they take your child 2 days a week or something. No rules apply to one off baby sitting (AFAIK)

And this to my mind is right as there are fully paid up vetted and tested childminders who go without work when people make arrangements like this.

[Silver Ether]

however, aparently, if your friend looks after your child and you give them a gift for doing so, THAT is illeagal... to gain anything from the act of looking after your child your friend would have to be registered as a childminder according to local council directives from a few years ago. trying to find an article to back me up....



nope. can't find one; but next time Tea has soph, she'll still be getting babysitting or some biscuits or something in return.

you right mrsflibble ... I am a childminder Its all to do with
1) child protection
2) carers protection.

Imagine if your friend was looking after your little one in exchange for goods ... and I am assuming you know your friend is "Safe" ... and something happens to her in that friends care, eg injury, severe injury, it does happen. Your friend would have no public liability insurance... how would you feel then. You get the appropriate insurance you need by being registered, police checked, first aid trained, food hygiene trained as well as covering many other aspects of child care. I tell you its one thing being responsible for your own child but its a completely different situation being responsible for some one else's.
and I don't believe in the Nanny state.

Annpann ... I don,t think its as much as 2days ... I cant remember of the top of my head and yes anyone can baby sit ... and I think that rule is really odd.

[Graye]

I know this is going way off topic but it's an interesting concept. What about people coming into your home to care for your child as opposed to taking them into their own home? I'm sure a large proportion of au pairs have no such qualifications and babysitters almost certainly don't.

[mrsflibble]

Silver Ether: I trust tea with soph, I trust that if anything did happen I'd not be sueing her!!! she trusts me with her lot from time to time; even Zach the spider-pest-monkey-child. I know she's not a registered childminder, but she's my friend an sophie knows her well enough to call her auntie. she's got 4 kids and has managed not to kill or maime any of them

Graye: no fricking idea.

[Green Aura]

I read something once on a LETS site that said something along the lines of bartering is potentially taxable if it's considered part of a business. I think what they were looking at was if someone bartered something like a new roof for a car, or something big like that. I think jam for eggs would fall under the radar unless of course you were Hartleys, swapping a ton of jam for enough eggs to start a new venture in victoria sponges!
Does that make sense?