Recycling Ideas ?

[Millymollymandy]

I live in the South East of England where we have had a lot less rainfall on our land than where you are

I don't think so John! You also don't have the same temperatures as France. Remember the heatwave in France 2003? The drought in France (and other parts of Europe) in 2005? Planting in containers as small as 2 litre pots would mean watering 2-3 times a day!

[oddballdave]

Hi Oddballdave and Millymollymandy,my simple answer to your guestion is again,I put what ever I can't re-use again in the recycling bin.
JRP.

That's what I thought.
Well it won't work round here (Telford and Wrekin). They can only recyle CLEAN plastic. So you have to wash out milk cartons before putting them to be recycled.

Any dirty plastic contaminates the load. It can't be recycled into fresh plastic, nor can it be burned for 'energy from waste', it has to go to land fill.

Dave

[oddballdave]

We also have people who go around late at night and take things,we call them thieve's in the South East.
And any pallets that make up my pallet plot I've ask someone if I could have them.

There are degrees of theft! If you have a skip and throw stuff in it, then pay someone to take it away to landfill, you are implying that the items are of no use to you and you do not want them.
If someone comes along and removes items from that skip - is it theft?

According to the law it is theft by finding.

There are a lot of people who go skip diving, looking for the treasure in someone elses waste. Not all of them ask permission first.

But regarding pallets, here in the Midlands they are a commercial item and now have value. Many companies now store their pallets in locked compounds, usually under cover, and generally treat their pallets as a cost to be minimised to the business.

Hence we have the equivalent of rag and bone men or Steptoe and Son going round from about 5.30pm until 10pm (when people are home from work) collecting 'scrap' to be recycled.

The council also has a number of vehicles and crews who work regular day shifts who collect 'household scrap' which will not fit into a bin for recycling. Refrigerators, cookers, bicycles, Old Sheds......

As a council landfill has been reduced year on year for the last four years despite an increase in houses and business' in the area with the consequent increase in rubbish! As a % recycling is still quite low (must do better) but as actual tonnage, it is phenomenal.

While some of your ideas appear sound, I do not think that they are necessarily as sustainable as you hope. Many areas around the country are improving on their recycling.

Dave
who collects Aluminium, for cash from the metalsmiths

[john]

I live in the South East of England where we have had a lot less rainfall on our land than where you are

I don't think so John! You also don't have the same temperatures as France. Remember the heatwave in France 2003? The drought in France (and other parts of Europe) in 2005? Planting in containers as small as 2 litre pots would mean watering 2-3 times a day!

Hi Millymollymandy,obviously you haven't tried my way of doing things. There's only one Sun and Moon no matter where you live,a drought is a drought no matter where you live. If my crops have no water to drink,like us they will die. My system works because it's so easy to recycle what ever water there is,no matter where it's used.
Done by simply undoing or doing up a cap which a ( POT ) does not have. John. JRP.

[john]

We also have people who go around late at night and take things,we call them thieve's in the South East.
And any pallets that make up my pallet plot I've ask someone if I could have them.

There are degrees of theft! If you have a skip and throw stuff in it, then pay someone to take it away to landfill, you are implying that the items are of no use to you and you do not want them.
If someone comes along and removes items from that skip - is it theft?

According to the law it is theft by finding.

There are a lot of people who go skip diving, looking for the treasure in someone elses waste. Not all of them ask permission first.

But regarding pallets, here in the Midlands they are a commercial item and now have value. Many companies now store their pallets in locked compounds, usually under cover, and generally treat their pallets as a cost to be minimised to the business.

Hence we have the equivalent of rag and bone men or Steptoe and Son going round from about 5.30pm until 10pm (when people are home from work) collecting 'scrap' to be recycled.

The council also has a number of vehicles and crews who work regular day shifts who collect 'household scrap' which will not fit into a bin for recycling. Refrigerators, cookers, bicycles, Old Sheds......

As a council landfill has been reduced year on year for the last four years despite an increase in houses and business' in the area with the consequent increase in rubbish! As a % recycling is still quite low (must do better) but as actual tonnage, it is phenomenal.

While some of your ideas appear sound, I do not think that they are necessarily as sustainable as you hope. Many areas around the country are improving on their recycling.

Dave
who collects Aluminium, for cash from the metalsmiths

Hi Oddballdave,It seems you've got your way of recycling and we've got our way. Down here in London it works in three ways having a skip outside your house,(1) for you to put your stuff into go to the most advanced materials recycling facility in Europe at Nathan way in Greenwich,where all our rubbish goes whether it's clean or not. (2) the other way is for other people who put stuff in your skip to avoid paying for it to be taken away,even though the Council offers a free service. (3) then of course there are those who take stuff out,which I suppose you could call them recycler's depending on what way you look at it,to be sold at bootfairs or re-used again.
When I first started my project, recycling was new to every one,but now there's money to be made in recycling everything is worth something to someone,but because my way of doing things cost next to nothing because it's made from rubbish people see no value in it,but to someone say in the third world it could help to feed them.
Like I've said before millions of people find water from some where or they would all die,all my system was designed to do was offer a new way to recycle what ever water there is to grow something to eat,which can be transported from one place to another without the crops dying.
What more can one man offer to the world for FREE.

I thought the law was,if you take something that belongs to someone else,it's theft. I would have thought every thing in the skip whether it's wanted or not still belongs to the owner whether they want it or not until it's picked up and taken away,as they are the ones who are paying for it to be taken away. John. JRP.

[oddballdave]

I live in the South East of England where we have had a lot less rainfall on our land than where you are

I don't think so John! You also don't have the same temperatures as France. Remember the heatwave in France 2003? The drought in France (and other parts of Europe) in 2005? Planting in containers as small as 2 litre pots would mean watering 2-3 times a day!

Hi Millymollymandy,obviously you haven't tried my way of doing things. There's only one Sun and Moon no matter where you live,a drought is a drought no matter where you live. If my crops have no water to drink,like us they will die. My system works because it's so easy to recycle what ever water there is,no matter where it's used.
Done by simply undoing or doing up a cap which a ( POT ) does not have. John. JRP.

Having travelled the world, there may be only one sun, but its effects are not the same everywhere you go. Canada in September averaged 40 degrees C for the 6 weeks I was there. A little hotter than the German Plains I had left behind. We stopped in Greenland on the flight over and the temperatures there were well below both Germany and Canada. Same half of the world, same sun. Vastly different weather systems.

When I went to Saudi Arabia it was raining in England, nothing unusual there, when I arrived in the Gulf it was raining there too. Difference being it was the first rain they had had in 9 months. The worst in ten years.

There was no rain in Canada for 5 weeks, yet the grain harvest was excellent that year.

The rain in Saudi made no difference to the crops being grown.

I can appreciate that your method allows for crops to be moved. But if water has to be trucked 20 miles to a village, how do you propose transporting your crops the 20 miles to get to the water?

The problem you have solved, is not the problem in Africa. My friends from Gambia, Namibia and The Gold coast laugh at the length of growing season in this country, they use local plants which will grow in weeks based upon the rainy season. Trying to save water at this time would not matter, because the plants would not grow better nor longer. If it rains, the crops will grow. The problem they have is that if the rains do not come, or if they are lower than average then the seed from this year is ruined, there will be no harvest. Repeat this failure over the years and starvation will result.
They also wondered at the waste of wealth in your system. So much plastic, so much wood. Now these are wealthy men (in relative terms). They have family members who work in Europe who send money back to support their VILLAGE. They are very important to the local economy and they would not consider wasting such valuable resources of wood and plastic in a way which does not actually improve things for them.
I showed them your claims for the system and they summarised it as:-
Reduced need to water - it is contained.
No need to fertilise or replenish the compost.

They asked how much produce you could get out of a system where nothing was put back in? Every horticultural system requires that for every fruit or vegetable you remove then something must be put back. Yours appears to contradict this in an anecdotal way.

As I said earlier, the problem you have solved is not the problem they have. This could be why your list of non-sponsors is growing. Not that your idea has no merit, but that it solves the wrong problem.

Dave

[The Chili Monster]

Hi John
I have followed this thread for some time now. I have visited your site. I have read with interest rthe replies you have given to fellow members of this forum.
Like everyone else that contributes to this forum, I agree wholeheartedly with you that we should recycle, reuse etc. If we can find an alternative use for something, then great; if not we should recycle. However, you are somewhat preaching to the converted ...
As previously mentioned, your system works well in dear old blighty. Perhaps with some modifications it could be used on other parts of the globe.
Do not take this the wrong way, but you need to take a look at how you are "selling" your idea. You are struggling for effective PR plus you are not really addressing well-thought out and constructive issues as raised by others on this forum. Here's some tips:
1. Locate your local Business Link (they cater for Social Enterprises and Charities also). Take advantages of their PR workshops and network, network, network. You are more likely to find a sponsor this way!!!
2. The materials you use here, recycled/reused as they may be, are designed to withstand conditions in this country and, alas, not the places that could in your opinion be best served by your system. This is not a critism of your design skills nor the thinking that underpins it, just plain old scientific fact. How do you plan to overcome this? Using locally based rubbish?
3.How do you plan to transport the waste to the potential beneficiaries of this system? Boats take a long time, planes, cars etc. pollute. Would the cost of implementing the system (bearing in mind it starts in the UK not Africa, Asia and so on) in terms of energy expended be less than finding another use here in the UK?
I'm sorry if this sounds a bit harsh but you appear to struggle to set out your stall convincingly on this forum (and we're the closest your probably going to get to willing conscripts!).
I look forward to reading your response ....

[john]

Hi Oddballdave and The Chili Monster,may I quote what I read in a news paper today the 11-4-2006,written by a Environment Editor.

EXPORTS of WASTE MUST DOUBLE to MEET TARGET.

DOUBLING exports of waste to China and other developing countries is the only way Britain will cope with the growing mountains of PAPER,PLASTICS and CANS being collected by councils in pursuit of Government recycling targets,a conference will be told today.
CONSUMERS may think that the Paper and Cards they sort and put out every week is being recycled close to home,but,since the collapse of manufacturing in Britain and the rise of the global marketplace,it is in ASIA that the demand for packaging materials now lies,according to WASTE EXPERTS.
About 3-8 million tons of Cardboard and PAPER out of a total consumption of 12-5 MILLION TONS was EXPORTED LAST YEAR with 2-5 million tons-20 per cent-going to CHINE and other developing countries in ASIA.
To meet national targets for recycling,40 per cent by 2010 and 50 per cent by 2020,exports of waste will have to double because Britain does not have sufficient processing capacity,or the manufacturing demand for the recycled product.
Experts will tell the conference on transnational movement of waste organised by the ROYAL GEOGRAPHICAL SOCIETY that waste exports will have to rise to 4-6 million tons by 2010 alone to meet the GOVERNMENT's TARGETS.
A Spokes woman who is the director of recycling development at GROSVEOR WASTE,said: The only place you see waste is in the WESTERN WORLD. Anywhere else,people stand on the street corner and wait for you to finish your PLASTIC BOTTLE because it has a value.
"Forty millon tons of recyclables went to Chine alone last year. That will rise to 63 MILLION TONS by 2010."
FRIENDS of the EARTH,said: "We would like to see as much recycled as possible in this country. "But we are not opposed to exports if there are genuine makets and genuinely high values."
(ME)
Every thing makes sense when there's money to be made,but I suppose nothing makes sense when you are offering something for nothing,which I am trying to do to help the poor for FREE.
What ever people say about my way of growing things to eat,it works.
Some people have already given me some money to help pay for my website and other thing so I don't give up trying to tell the world,that there is a system that works made from rubbish,which you can use for more than one thing,one is mainly to grow things,the other is to help reduce the amount of waste going into landfill sites,even my brittle old plastic containers bits could be re-used again by being stuck on say glass or something else,which could be shown on the BLUE PETER programme, Woopes that's another idea of mine that some people will think is to far outside the box way of thinking,like my AID PROGRAMME IDEA.
Thank you for showing your interst in what I'm doing,may you and yours live long and happy. John. JRP.

[The Chili Monster]

Hi John
If Britain is failing to meet its "Official" recycling obligations, then how come there's planning permission to build a waste incinerator just two miles from me that will also burn rubbish from other parts of the globe?. However, I digress, this is not the platform to debate such matters.
Once again, John, you fail to consider what is put to you. So may I be just a little blunt:
1. Just how is your system FREE in monatery terms if it is to be shipped abroad?
2. What is the COST to the planet in terms of fuel usage and the pollution it generates (one sort of follows the other) of moving this stuff abroad?
3. Isn't it better to REDUCE the culture of overpackaging goods, which is done incidentally to prevent the fat, additives, salt, water etc going off before it poisons the average consumer? It's packaging that is mostly filling landfills!
4.You cannot IGNORE the science that underpins polymer chemistry. The stability of plastics are formulated with climate in mind. Beer crates in Britain and Germany are slightly different to allow for differences in winter temperatures, for example. You say alternative uses can be found for old plastic, but you are being somewhat vague on the matter.
5. The Earth is a COLLECTION OF ECOSYSTEMS: your system ignores a vital component of this, i.e. the soil. It is as dangerous to the planet for us to ignore its surface as the hole in the ozone layer and elevated levels of carbon dioxide is to the Earth's atmosphere. You seem unwilling to address this issue.
6. If you cannot PUT ACROSS your argument in a coherent fashion, it is unlikely to catch on.
Well, John, your system may well spare wooden pallets and empty milk containers from the landfill but it appears to ignore many other Green issues. BTW, just how do you prevent algae building up in the containers used to capture the water?
Finally, to contradict my opening statement partially, those targets you mention are based on something called performance indicators. As a trainee accountant, I construct these on an almost daily basis for clients, and believe me when I say "... lies, damned lies,..." doesn't just apply to statistics!!!
Next installment, please?

[john]

Hi Chili Monster.
(1) some of my supporters have said,there's nearly always empty spaces on plains and ships where my plastic containers and my wooden carrying beam could be put without adding any monatery terms to it,if it's shipped abroad.
(2) next to nothing to move it abroad.
(3) be selfsufficientish like I'm trying to be in veg.
(4) a container is a container,what you use it for is up to you,if you want to carry something from one place to another.
(5) we have all been ask to do our bit by recycling,re-using,reducing some of our waste to save the ENVIRONMENT,which I have done. What can you claim to have done to help save our planet,and those who are worse of than you are,where living from one day to the next is so important,which so many poor people do as a way of life. It better be good,and you can prove it or I will know you have been talking enough wind to drive a wind turbine.
(6) any green algae water I have saved is great to feed my crops,as it's just like life started on earth.
My system works,and that's no lie believe me.
MAY WE ALL LIVE LONG AND HAPPY. John. JRP.

[oddballdave]

Hi Chili Monster.
(1) some of my supporters have said,there's nearly always empty spaces on plains and ships where my plastic containers and my wooden carrying beam could be put without adding any monatery terms to it,if it's shipped abroad.
(2) next to nothing to move it abroad.
(3) be selfsufficientish like I'm trying to be in veg.
(4) a container is a container,what you use it for is up to you,if you want to carry something from one place to another.
(5) we have all been ask to do our bit by recycling,re-using,reducing some of our waste to save the ENVIRONMENT,which I have done. What can you claim to have done to help save our planet,and those who are worse of than you are,where living from one day to the next is so important,which so many poor people do as a way of life. It better be good,and you can prove it or I will know you have been talking enough wind to drive a wind turbine.
(6) any green algae water I have saved is great to feed my crops,as it's just like life started on earth.
My system works,and that's no lie believe me.
MAY WE ALL LIVE LONG AND HAPPY. John. JRP.

(1) There are people who's sole job is to ensure that Ocean going craft are NEVER empty. And empty space on a plane is flown for a small cost. If you fill that space with any weight the costs of flying an aircraft increase dramatically.
(2) Does not agree with 1.
(3) No Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. They are in that order for a reason. Recycling may be the thing which is pushed as the glamorous part. But the emphasis is actually on Reduce.
(4) No. I disagree with that. A container is designed for a specific task.
It may be modified to do something else, but always at a cost. Milk bottles are designed for a specific life span. The formula for carrier bags has been changed so that they are now bio-degradeable (in soil)
(5) You quote the three R's but in the wrong order. They are not to do with your waste but your entire consumption. The current education push is aimed at waste because everyone generates it, it needs to be dealt with, the old systems are not sustainable and it should not cost a great deal to implement. Organic food is being pushed because it is REDUCTION, reduction of chemicals and pesticides, reduction of food miles. reduction of packaging. We are looking at systems, as a whole. The solution you are trying to 'sell' solves certain problems. As I said previously, they are not the problems of West Africa (Third World) so no-one there will 'buy into' your ideas and start using them.

If you were to offer a simple, cheap solution for trapping the rainy season and holding a years supply of water from a two month rainfall. Then they would be very interested. The solution they have is to let the water soak into the water table and draw it from boreholes. Cheap, simple and easy to operate. If you could find some method of producing safe drinking water from seawater it would be looked at with interest, in Saudi Arabia the plant is very expensive and requires constant maintenance. Can it be improved? If so, how?

[The Chili Monster]

Hi John
I have read your response to my queries.
In reply,
you wrote:

(1) some of my supporters have said,there's nearly always empty spaces on plains and ships where my plastic containers and my wooden carrying beam could be put without adding any monatery terms to it,if it's shipped abroad. (2) next to nothing to move it abroad.

Nobody disputes the availability of land, John, but are we really to believe that the Merchant Seaman will work for nothing, that the ship will be provided free, that the fuel it needs will be given gratis? That the port authorities will allow you to dock without charge? I think you'll find that even major relief efforts are subject to fixed overheads, which have to be met, plus tax on cash surpluses. You haven't even addressed my query regarding energy consumption! Basic physics, John.

You wrote

(3) be selfsufficientish like I'm trying to be in veg.

???? That's right, I'm just pretending. My point is that the food industry needs to investigate ways to reduce the amount of packaging they use. I am growing my own stuff this year, and guess what John, I started them off in newspaper pots and plastic milk containers! Over the next few weeks they'll be planted into my raised beds (in my garden, no travelling involved) and when the growing season has finished, they'll either be eaten or end up on my compost heap.



You wrote:

(4) a container is a container,what you use it for is up to you,if you want to carry something from one place to another.

I'm not sure I understand what you are driving at here, John. Quite frankly, you appear unable or unwilling to grasp the basics of polymer chemistry. How can consistently shipping plastic to say, Africa, help? Aren't you just dumping the end problem (ie what to do with brittle plastic) on someone else?



You wrote:

5) we have all been ask to do our bit by recycling,re-using,reducing some of our waste to save the ENVIRONMENT,which I have done. What can you claim to have done to help save our planet,and those who are worse of than you are,where living from one day to the next is so important,which so many poor people do as a way of life. It better be good,and you can prove it or I will know you have been talking enough wind to drive a wind turbine.

Oh dear, John. Resorting to insults? Firstly, I help my environment by reducing my own ecological footprint: I recycle; I don't own a car; I shop locally, supporting wherever possible, the small trader and I volunteer. It's true I'm not an inventor, but hey...

You wrote:

(6) any green algae water I have saved is great to feed my crops,as it's just like life started on earth.

Cool.

Finally, John, I wrote:

As previously mentioned, your system works well in dear old blighty. Perhaps with some modifications it could be used on other parts of the globe.

I have never suggested that your invention is unworkable ... nor, I believe has anyone else on this forum ... however, given the wider picture, IMHO, it would appear that you can't see the woods for the trees.
To be continued ....

[Millymollymandy]

I had another look at your site John, which is a lot easier on the eye than the previous version.

I would be intersted to know:-

(1) How long it takes you to water your entire pallet allotment as shown in the picture, bottom right, on the Flood/Drought page.

(2) How much water you use.

(3) How much time does it take you to screw the tops onto the bottom of each and every plastic milk container, which you call the 'built in water recycling system'.

(4) How long, in sunny weather at, say, 30C, before you have to water these pots again?

[john]

Hi ALL,after 10 years of telling people about my ideas that work,and showing them on my website,and writing too about the way I do things,enough is enough. I'm sorry if I have insulted any one,but I have had so many negative thinking people waste my time.
In regards to designing a system that can save a years water which can fall only in 2 months. YES,I have already done it. The water saving idea is a simple consept,every container is a water tank,when empty can be transported to where the rain is most likely to fall.
My idea can be used on a very large scale or a small one,with the added benefit that what ever water is saved will not be lost through evaporation.
My idea could change the way we save water for ever,if used our resovires could become a thing of the past,yet they could be used to prevent flooding.
If there's any country out there who wants to make me an offer,please contact me.
In regards to trying to make salt water suitable for drinking,I'm working on it,for example using sand as a filtering system to then return the sand back to the sea bed. If you want to save the salt and have drinking water,I'm working on that too,for example simply done by using a conveyer belt system.
Once again if there's any country out there who wants to make me an offer,please contact me.
Water is the blood of life,to have none means death,may we always have enough water to live long and happy. What more can one man offer to the world. John. JRP.

[john]

Hi ALL,what a great day we had on the 10-5-2006,what with it being a very hot and sunny day,and meeting a very positive thinking lady,who I spoke to for at least 3 hours,before she had to make her own way back home again back to South East Greenwich by bus.
With a end result after our meeting being she said that she will do all that she can to help spread the word on my behalf,about my way of growing things,after she see my plot. For example she going to contact the TV community channel,and use my idea on her own very small back garden space boxed in by high fences and no earth,just concrete to grow food on to eat as she is a vegetarian,and she can cook too,just as well as she is the loving mother of 9 children who enjoys life. If there's any one else out there who wants to see my plot,and meet me to talk about it,please e-mail me. John. J.R.P.