Am I evil?

[Thurston Garden]

One thing that did surprise me when I stopped using supermarkets was that I actually saved money. By using small shops on the High Street (we have a good Veg/Wholefood shop, a deli, a butcher and 2 family bakers) not only did I enjoy shopping - because the people working in these shops had a genuine interest in their job - but I only bought what I needed - there was no 3 for 2 offers to tempt me into buying what at first might seem like a bargain (surely it's only a bargain if you actually need it?).

Is it not a case of being time poor rather than cash poor?

[baldowrie]

may be for some but not for me!

I am very disciplined and only shop once a month. I buy what I need only, I can not afford to do otherwise. I have mobilty problems so high street shopping would make me health poor!

[Thurston Garden]

Sorry Tomr! Thats that thread well and truly hijacked

But, to return to the OP, I too would love to use that gizmo, if only to stick a spanner in the corporate works of Te*co, As*a, Sainsbu*y, or M*orrisons!

(Completely unbiased me, I detest them all!)

[red]

gosh TG you disguised those names soooo well I have no idea who you are talking about

[Muddypause]

I am very disciplined and only shop once a month. I buy what I need only, I can not afford to do otherwise.

And there's the rub, Baldowrie (not with you, you understand). These empires depend upon a poor and disadvantaged class of people in order to give them their power base. 'Consumer Choice' goes the mantra, and yet here you are, deprived of any choice in the matter at all - you have to go where it's cheapest, and the supermarkets rub their hands in glee at the power they have over you. Capitalism depends upon keeping people poor.

[Tomr]

Sorry Tomr! Thats that thread well and truly hijacked

That’s alright! This is far more interesting.
TBH the subject is not one I had thought about much before. My household generally shops at T***o, mainly because we live about 4 minutes away from a massive T***o Extra (billed as the biggest in Europe when it opened).

We go once a week and top up from wherever is handy when we run out of something. We have a small SPAR a few minutes’ walk away but we try to avoid it because it’s mostly full of rubbish and convince food and the prices are really high.

If I had my own way (or if it was me paying 100% of the food bill!) We would maybe shop at T***o once a month for tinned stuff and get the rest from the green grocer, baker, health food shop, etc as and when we need it. The trouble is the lack of such shops. The only place I can immediately think of to get fruit and Veg is the market in the city centre which in my experience is not much if any cheaper and the produce is often of dubious quality and is not easy to get to. I can think of a couple of bakers but again none locally.

I’m interested to hear what people think about Waitrose in comparison to other supermarkets because I am a Partner in the John Lewis Partnership which own Waitrose, although I work in the John Lewis division.

It would be interesting to do a proper poll on this.
Hmmm might put one together actually. Watch this space!

[theabsinthefairy]

Tomr
I am not sure if my opinion of Waitrose is relevant, but you can have it anyway - I have lots of opinions and most of them are free.

Where we used to live in the UK, I would only pop into the Waitrose if I absolutely had to in order to avoid a long journey to another alternative supermarket, and not just because of the limited stock range and eccentric pricing systems, but because of the type of clientle it had as its norm, and its distinct lack of customer service. What's the adage - pay peanuts get monkeys? How do Waitrose manage to screen for snobby monkeys?

For example - I could turn up in my muddy jodphurs, and riding boots, stinking to high heaven of horsey doings and would be greated with smiles and pleasantries.

However, if I turned up in dirty jeans and muddy shoes, stinking of the hard sweat of my labours double digging - I would be sneered at and once actually asked to leave the store due to the trail of mud I was leaving behind me.

Humiliation for a pint of milk - no thanks.

[ina]

The trouble is the lack of such shops.

It would be interesting to know whether there were shops before T***s was built in that location. I mean, not shops in exactly the same place, but in the area. Most research has shown that smaller shops go out of business when the big boys move in - and then the choice has truly gone! I find that supermarkets often don't sell what I need anyway...

Btw, that argument that they create jobs is also out of the window when you look at the overall picture. One member of staff in a supermarket accounts for a lot more food sold than one member of staff in a small shop. In the end, jobs go.

[baldowrie]

Muddy

And there's the rub, Baldowrie (not with you, you understand). These empires depend upon a poor and disadvantaged class of people in order to give them their power base. 'Consumer Choice' goes the mantra, and yet here you are, deprived of any choice in the matter at all - you have to go where it's cheapest, and the supermarkets rub their hands in glee at the power they have over you. Capitalism depends upon keeping people poor.

Very true!

Supermarkets in general saw the opening, convenience and the need for low prices, and took the opportunity to fill it with success as far as they are concerned and at the time joe public embraced it.

I go once a month to my supermarket and stock up, got the to stage that I don't need so much stock now. I do this because it actually saves a fortune and I REALLY HATE negotiating 'Dolly' and and her wayward trolley and screaming brats!

I do purchase some meat from more local sources, friends, because not only does it taste better and I know where it's come from but also their prices represent excellent value for money and is within my budget does actually work out cheaper in the long run.

[baldowrie]

Ina

It would be interesting to know whether there were shops before T***s was built in that location. I mean, not shops in exactly the same place, but in the area.

I can answer this one as I am old enough to remember Savacentre opening in Basildon!

The where not any shops on the actual Savacentre site, which is close to the town, but a small shopping mail was built up to Savacentre. Local shops bought/rented the units in the shopping centre including some butchers and grocers. However they didn't last long, and not because of the competition. This was because their products were such cr*p to start with the consumer went to Savacentre to buy as an alternative! The consumer before the supermarket was built had no choice but to buy the rubbish they were selling and complain to no avail. The supermarket was better quality and complaints dealt with. I have no idea what it is like now and no intention of ever returning there. I know this is not always the case but I can remember the rotten meat my mother was for ever returning and the stinking day old veg she threw away

[Stonehead]

A question - why the almost total focus on T***o? A**a is now part of Wal-mart, which is much more rapacious, cut-throat and predatory than even T***o.

The other supermarket chains also, in many cases, act similarly if they can - although their lack of market dominance compared with T***o and A**a does limit their scope for predatory practice.

As for us, we have to use T*** for a large chunk of our grocery shopping, but it's not entirely "their" fault. Our local shop was locally owned until recently and was very good as meeting local needs, while also selling a reasonable range of Fair Trade and organic lines.

However, it's now been bought by a businessman with a chain of shops, who's moving the shop to a high-turnover, low-stock business. So, the slower shifting and "speciality" ranges are being replaced by crud that sells fast and has a higher margin.

That's pushed us out so what are we left with? T***o or A**a in Huntly or a longer drive to Inverurie. We don't buy meat, vegetables or much fruit from them, source spices and various things from online small businesses, and use the few remaining local resources where we an, but otherwise we're stuck with making the best of a bad choice while also keeping our grocery costs as low as we can without buying rubbish.

So I object to the practices of the large supermarket chains (and some small businesses as well) on philosophical grounds, but I also have to exercise a degree of pragmatism, too. That means shopping at a supermarket, but buying as little as possible, buying reasonably local or organic products where I can afford to, and being a subversive shopper (cash only, no loyalty card, no crud, no special offers unless it's something we actually buy regularly, etc).

[red]

I am lucky in that now i live in a village with a few small shops and a co-op - but not everyone is in this position, and I have to question the wisdom of driving further to get to 'local' shops...
I agree that co-op is not as bad as the others... they still sell rubbish - mashed potatoes in a plastic box.. but they do a good line in fair trade stuff, and little things like.. I always buy British butter.. and unlike other supermarkets.. co-ops own brand butter is British...
but - talking to a neighbour.. he used to run a greengrocers.. but the co-op arriving killed off his business.

so here am i supporting the local shops.. but they killed off the previous local shops... it's not simple!

Mostly I use our local shops because A walking distance for me so easier.. and B I want the shops to stay.. use them or lose them. I see neighbours coming bck from the big supermarket with bags and bags of groceries.. but I bet if the co-op closed they would complain!!!

One of the problems is back to the lack of education. I know my cuts of meat so can cope with the butcher just fine. but being a small village.. he only has a small display.. anything else you have to ask for and he will happily go out back and cut it for you.. but I think alot of people dont know what to buy unless it comes in a box labled 'frying steak' or something.

The other problem is people's lives have changed. I'm lucky enough to be home based. most people here leave the village for their work and return after the small shops have closed. Small shops dont tend to keep handy after work hours (co-op does yay - but that is just a small supermarket in the end....)

re waitrose.. see my ealier link.

[Tomr]

Tomr
I am not sure if my opinion of Waitrose is relevant, but you can have it anyway - I have lots of opinions and most of them are free.

Where we used to live in the UK, I would only pop into the Waitrose if I absolutely had to in order to avoid a long journey to another alternative supermarket, and not just because of the limited stock range and eccentric pricing systems, but because of the type of clientle it had as its norm, and its distinct lack of customer service. What's the adage - pay peanuts get monkeys? How do Waitrose manage to screen for snobby monkeys?

How long ago was this theabsinthefairy? There are projects underway to expand the range etc but I don't really know much about them to be honest as I’m on the other side of the business.

JLP has always strived to be a 'Middle Class' store, but certainly never restricts its customer base (which is a pity sometimes with all the chavs and their screaming offspring yelling across the store...)

However, if I turned up in dirty jeans and muddy shoes, stinking of the hard sweat of my labours double digging - I would be sneered at and once actually asked to leave the store due to the trail of mud I was leaving behind me.

To be fair, if I had a shop I think I'd ask you to leave it if you were doing that! lol

[Annpan]

I shop at supermarkets (again for tins, etc) but I do try to buy as much meat and veg as I can from the farmers markets. I only buy british and only buy organic (meat and animal products) None of the major supermarkets give a decent range, where as you go to a farmers market and the range is amazing, the service is friendly and the taste is (usually) superb. I also buy dried beans and pulses, and cleaning products from the healthfood store.

There was a recent study into supermarket ethics and Co-op came out top with Sainsburys/ waitrose joint 2nd, and Somerfield was at the bottom. Unfortunatley I can't find the results now.

re. Waitrose - You get the same treatment in JL, the staff regularly ignore you unless you are a snooty middle aged woman. I once complained about the standards in their cafe and they appologised with a comlementary tea and cake ( ) but it was just as bad the second time, I won't be going back

Does anyone have a local working co-operative shop in their area? I'd love to be able to use one, I know that some of the islands have them, basically the money you give them comes right back into the community and the local suppliers. It would be a great scheme to be a part of. HFW was talking about starting a chain of them some time ago, but I haven't heard anything since.

Stoney - where do you order your spices from, I am in desperate need of somewhere I can bulk buy. I used to go to the chinese supermarket in Glasgow, but it is to far a journey now. (a normal jar of coriander seeds last 2 meals in this house... )

[Tomr]

I said I would so here it is:
Selfsufficientish.com Supermarket Survey
http://www.pheos-online.co.uk/ss/

It was knocked together in a hour and bit so be gentle with it!

I'll repost it as a new topic as well. The result could be interesting.