So........
Supermarkets tempt us into spending money.
Someone in Germany waxes lyrical about a conspiracy between the Government and the Multiples to tax us so heavily that we are forced to eat cheap sawdust.
Some people would prefer to spend more on convenience and enjoy a liesure activity that the "inteligencia" believe is demeaning?
That Rich people who in % terms pay less tax but in terms of absolute £'s pay huge amounts more, choose to use that extra income to spend on a private sector Health and Eductaion system, which actually creates jobs in the private sector, and saves in public sector.
Also those lower earner who are so burdened by the high % of tax, what about thier income? I bet % wise they get allot more FROM the state, than higher earner.
Oh and the fact that a Multiple supplies free sports equipment to schools, which free's up the finite resources from the budget for the school, well that whole thing is just rubbish.
Supermarkets should be like trader joe's.....
Apples in cling film are poisonous.....
This would make a great parody book of Idiotic Left Wing Ramblings for the Daily Mail Christmas Special.
Supermarket Expansion
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boboff
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Re: Supermarket Expansion
http://boboffs.blogspot.co.uk/Millymollymandy wrote:Bloody smilies, always being used. I hate them and they should be banned.
No I won't use a smiley because I've decided to turn into Boboff, as he's turned all nice all of a sudden. Grumble grumble.
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okra
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Re: Supermarket Expansion
If you live on a low income your choices are limited. its not a choice to spend more time on leisure - you have to buy the cheapest food available.boboff wrote:So........
Supermarkets tempt us into spending money.
Someone in Germany waxes lyrical about a conspiracy between the Government and the Multiples to tax us so heavily that we are forced to eat cheap sawdust.
Some people would prefer to spend more on convenience and enjoy a liesure activity that the "inteligencia" believe is demeaning?
That Rich people who in % terms pay less tax but in terms of absolute £'s pay huge amounts more, choose to use that extra income to spend on a private sector Health and Eductaion system, which actually creates jobs in the private sector, and saves in public sector.
Also those lower earner who are so burdened by the high % of tax, what about thier income? I bet % wise they get allot more FROM the state, than higher earner.
Oh and the fact that a Multiple supplies free sports equipment to schools, which free's up the finite resources from the budget for the school, well that whole thing is just rubbish.
Supermarkets should be like trader joe's.....
Apples in cling film are poisonous.....
This would make a great parody book of Idiotic Left Wing Ramblings for the Daily Mail Christmas Special.
I don't think its a conspiracy that supermarkets are expanding its just the political class and business class are so inter-related and inter-dependant that their interests are the same. Neither give a shit about the poor and are more interested in accumulating more wealth for themselves.
As for paying more pounds in taxes, that could be another debate but with offshore funds, expensive accountants and tax avoidance who knows. Tax avoidance costs much more than benefit fraud (one estimate puts it a 13 billion a year) but when was the last time the Daily Mail had an investigation into it? The rich are of course entitled to use their money to buy private medicine and education but they should reimburse the rest of us for training the doctors and teachers. And the class system in Britain is perpetuated by private education and finishing school system and we remain the most class ridden society in Europe. Meritocracy is a myth
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Rosendula
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Re: Supermarket Expansion
I haven't had the concentration time to read all the replies properly, so sorry if this repeats something already said.
I do know people who have said they have to shop in supermarkets because they are at work all day and the small shops are closed by the time they leave. (Saturdays are filled up with ferrying kids to various clubs and activities). I can fully understand how families where both adults work full-time (and of course single parent households where the parent works full-time), simply can't get to small, local shops during opening times. What bothers me most about this is the number of people who are working for such a low wage that when they take off tax and NI, travel expenses to and from work, and all the other work-related expenses, many of them are working for such a small amount it's not worth it. Convenience foods do cost more than home-made a lot of the time, but not many people want to spend their time cooking from scratch when they've been at work all day. Plus, if you think of it from the children's point of view: they wake up and see their parents for a few minutes while everyone's rushing around to get out of the house for school/work. Then when they get home from school their parents are tied to the kitchen. When the parents finally do get to sit down, it's bed-time for the kids. So convenience food seems like a better choice if you want to save a bit of time in the kitchen. But it does cost more, that extra money coming from the tiny bit of wages that is left over after taking off the costs of going to work. I used to work 30 hours a week for a relatively decent wage, but now I'm a stay-at-home, home-educating parent who cooks from scratch with rare exception. We eat better and we have more time together, yet despite having a much lower income, we are not very much worse off financially.
I do know people who have said they have to shop in supermarkets because they are at work all day and the small shops are closed by the time they leave. (Saturdays are filled up with ferrying kids to various clubs and activities). I can fully understand how families where both adults work full-time (and of course single parent households where the parent works full-time), simply can't get to small, local shops during opening times. What bothers me most about this is the number of people who are working for such a low wage that when they take off tax and NI, travel expenses to and from work, and all the other work-related expenses, many of them are working for such a small amount it's not worth it. Convenience foods do cost more than home-made a lot of the time, but not many people want to spend their time cooking from scratch when they've been at work all day. Plus, if you think of it from the children's point of view: they wake up and see their parents for a few minutes while everyone's rushing around to get out of the house for school/work. Then when they get home from school their parents are tied to the kitchen. When the parents finally do get to sit down, it's bed-time for the kids. So convenience food seems like a better choice if you want to save a bit of time in the kitchen. But it does cost more, that extra money coming from the tiny bit of wages that is left over after taking off the costs of going to work. I used to work 30 hours a week for a relatively decent wage, but now I'm a stay-at-home, home-educating parent who cooks from scratch with rare exception. We eat better and we have more time together, yet despite having a much lower income, we are not very much worse off financially.
Rosey xx
Re: Supermarket Expansion
I'd agree with that (and Okra's said- all there is to say viz who pays for what, though I would add that Utilitarianism didn't advocate basic education and improved health/housing as a result of altruism ).Thing is Rosey you are educated and skilled enough to realise you can make these choices,loads of others (maybe the majority )aren't.The last load of faces spent God knows how long trying to persuade couples both to work,leave the kids at breakfast/dinner/supper/mcDonalds club ,or whatever,get a bigger mortgage/motor/holiday whatever in order to 'drive the economy to growth.As a result even people who are educated/skilled enough do potentially otherwise are caught in the grip of the madness.Then there's all the others,who do it just cos they think they have to.
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Green Aura
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Re: Supermarket Expansion
I've deleted your second post oj - somehow you managed to post part of the previous reply again 
As for supermarkets, they're they epitome of all the evils of capitalism that even Marx could not have envisaged.
As for supermarkets, they're they epitome of all the evils of capitalism that even Marx could not have envisaged.
Maggie
Never doubt that you can change history. You already have. Marge Piercy
Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage. Anais Nin
Never doubt that you can change history. You already have. Marge Piercy
Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage. Anais Nin
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okra
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Re: Supermarket Expansion
Another few reasons why supermarkets have had a less than totally beneficial effect on society
1) Supermarkets are driving farmers out of business. In January the Competition Commission released a report stating that the trading practices of the biggest supermarkets may be leading to the loss of farmers and small shops. Because the big supermarkets have a monopoly of such a large part of the wholesale food buying market, they can dictate prices and force farmers into trading for less and less profit. The Competition Commission found evidence that certain chains including Asda and T***o, were bullying producers into lowering prices, with dairy farmers now receiving 20% less for milk than they did 19 years ago. 1,000 dairy farmers in England and Wales have gone out of business in the last year alone.
2) Supermarkets sell bland food Because much of their food is transported a long way, whether from overseas or within the UK, supermarkets value longevity in food products. By insisting on uniformity of produce supermarkets ensure that farmers breed crops for their size, shape and shelf-life rather than their taste. Supermarkets like to stock all products all year round, not altering their selections with the seasons. Forced crops grown in greenhouses can be bland and tasteless.
3) Supermarkets are wasteful. 17 million tonnes of food waste is ploughed into the UK's landfills every year, with around 4 million tonnes of that being perfectly good to eat. This is in large part due to the supermarket practice of discarding food that doesn’t meet proscribed standards. Supermarkets also make us wasteful as individuals, because of the drive to buy in bulk. Food industry and government statistics show that each adult wastes £420 of food a year.
Supermarkets waste other materials in addition to food: in order to transport food such a long way, supermarkets encourage wasteful excess packaging of products. Much packaging involves multiple materials (eg both plastic and cardboard) making it difficult to recycle.
4) Supermarkets are reducing biodiversity and choice. Because they are budgeting on a national scale, supermarkets encourage mass production from farms for maximum profit for the stores. They want farmers to grow large crops of the same variety, enough to supply their many customers. As a result, rather than producing, say, a range of the 2,300 different varieties of apple, farmers end up farming one variety intensively, reducing diversity and increasing the risk of damage from pests. To make it easier to process products in large quantities, supermarkets demand standardised products, refusing to buy fruit and vegetables that don’t correspond to the proscribed sizes. This is wasteful and puts financial pressure on farmers to conform to the standards, which requires the use of pesticides, fertilizers and factory farming methods.
5) Supermarkets are a big contributor to carbon emissions. Supermarket food tends to rack up a high number of air miles before arriving in the aisles: the average item of food purchased from a supermarket travels over 1000 miles. The Department for Environment, Food and Rural affairs says that the UK produces under two thirds of its own food. Supermarkets like to trade with farmers in developing countries whose prices are far lower, who don’t have regulations on the use of polluting chemicals, and who are easier to exploit. They then transport the food often thousands of miles back to the UK. Even items that are produced in the UK are transported to a central processing plant before being distributed to outlets. The distance food is transported has increased by 50% over the last 20 years, and UK air freight is growing by about 7% per year.
1) Supermarkets are driving farmers out of business. In January the Competition Commission released a report stating that the trading practices of the biggest supermarkets may be leading to the loss of farmers and small shops. Because the big supermarkets have a monopoly of such a large part of the wholesale food buying market, they can dictate prices and force farmers into trading for less and less profit. The Competition Commission found evidence that certain chains including Asda and T***o, were bullying producers into lowering prices, with dairy farmers now receiving 20% less for milk than they did 19 years ago. 1,000 dairy farmers in England and Wales have gone out of business in the last year alone.
2) Supermarkets sell bland food Because much of their food is transported a long way, whether from overseas or within the UK, supermarkets value longevity in food products. By insisting on uniformity of produce supermarkets ensure that farmers breed crops for their size, shape and shelf-life rather than their taste. Supermarkets like to stock all products all year round, not altering their selections with the seasons. Forced crops grown in greenhouses can be bland and tasteless.
3) Supermarkets are wasteful. 17 million tonnes of food waste is ploughed into the UK's landfills every year, with around 4 million tonnes of that being perfectly good to eat. This is in large part due to the supermarket practice of discarding food that doesn’t meet proscribed standards. Supermarkets also make us wasteful as individuals, because of the drive to buy in bulk. Food industry and government statistics show that each adult wastes £420 of food a year.
Supermarkets waste other materials in addition to food: in order to transport food such a long way, supermarkets encourage wasteful excess packaging of products. Much packaging involves multiple materials (eg both plastic and cardboard) making it difficult to recycle.
4) Supermarkets are reducing biodiversity and choice. Because they are budgeting on a national scale, supermarkets encourage mass production from farms for maximum profit for the stores. They want farmers to grow large crops of the same variety, enough to supply their many customers. As a result, rather than producing, say, a range of the 2,300 different varieties of apple, farmers end up farming one variety intensively, reducing diversity and increasing the risk of damage from pests. To make it easier to process products in large quantities, supermarkets demand standardised products, refusing to buy fruit and vegetables that don’t correspond to the proscribed sizes. This is wasteful and puts financial pressure on farmers to conform to the standards, which requires the use of pesticides, fertilizers and factory farming methods.
5) Supermarkets are a big contributor to carbon emissions. Supermarket food tends to rack up a high number of air miles before arriving in the aisles: the average item of food purchased from a supermarket travels over 1000 miles. The Department for Environment, Food and Rural affairs says that the UK produces under two thirds of its own food. Supermarkets like to trade with farmers in developing countries whose prices are far lower, who don’t have regulations on the use of polluting chemicals, and who are easier to exploit. They then transport the food often thousands of miles back to the UK. Even items that are produced in the UK are transported to a central processing plant before being distributed to outlets. The distance food is transported has increased by 50% over the last 20 years, and UK air freight is growing by about 7% per year.
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123sologne
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Re: Supermarket Expansion
Okra, I think you have summarized supermarkets very well.
Yes they can give sports equipments to schools and get the chance to the poorest of the population to have access to foods they would not have access to (possibly) in any other way. They also create jobs of course and lots of them, but by the way, the majority of those jobs are the lowest paid ones. They give some parents the opportunity to spend more time with their children, as they do not have to cook (something they could actually do with the children). But there is all of what you say to contend with. I personally don't like this side of it and while I use the supermarkets as my choices are very limited, I don't have to like it and I am certainly trying to avoid using them more and more like many of us here I think.
Yes they can give sports equipments to schools and get the chance to the poorest of the population to have access to foods they would not have access to (possibly) in any other way. They also create jobs of course and lots of them, but by the way, the majority of those jobs are the lowest paid ones. They give some parents the opportunity to spend more time with their children, as they do not have to cook (something they could actually do with the children). But there is all of what you say to contend with. I personally don't like this side of it and while I use the supermarkets as my choices are very limited, I don't have to like it and I am certainly trying to avoid using them more and more like many of us here I think.
Re: Supermarket Expansion
Green Aura wrote:I've deleted your second post oj - somehow you managed to post part of the previous reply again
As for supermarkets, they're they epitome of all the evils of capitalism that even Marx could not have envisaged.
Me?........repeat myself???......surely not!!
I agree with practically all this,but not the notion that supermarkets are of any benefit for the poorest.Where I come from those people tend not to have a motor.........
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crowsashes
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Re: Supermarket Expansion
supermarkets definitely do not help the poorest... i can honestly say that being a single parent on benefit. the cheapest food or the food that is ALWAYS on offer is usually crap. we're talking crisps etc.
when was the last time you walked in to a supermarket and saw a BOGOF offer on red peppers for example? i know the supermarkets do the 'cheap veg promise' thing making sure some veg every week is 'cheap' but whats funny is ...theres no difference the price was put up for a few weeks before being lowered!
the advertising for each shop doesn't help either.... just look at the xmas ads and what their trying to sell ' a very happy cheap xmas' now any cash strapped person will jump at the chance to save a few quid but are suckered in through the careful tactics employed by the supermarkets. we all know why the sweets are at the till but supermarkets are getting smarter now we are learning their current tricks!
advertising was the one part of my design degree i both loved and loathed! its impressive how you can get across a blatant message like 'buy me buy me' in such a subtle way. getting them in the store was/is the hardest part (not sure now as you dont have to travel far to find one of the big four) but once your there selling you anything from food to clothes is easy...
when was the last time you walked in to a supermarket and saw a BOGOF offer on red peppers for example? i know the supermarkets do the 'cheap veg promise' thing making sure some veg every week is 'cheap' but whats funny is ...theres no difference the price was put up for a few weeks before being lowered!
the advertising for each shop doesn't help either.... just look at the xmas ads and what their trying to sell ' a very happy cheap xmas' now any cash strapped person will jump at the chance to save a few quid but are suckered in through the careful tactics employed by the supermarkets. we all know why the sweets are at the till but supermarkets are getting smarter now we are learning their current tricks!
advertising was the one part of my design degree i both loved and loathed! its impressive how you can get across a blatant message like 'buy me buy me' in such a subtle way. getting them in the store was/is the hardest part (not sure now as you dont have to travel far to find one of the big four) but once your there selling you anything from food to clothes is easy...
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boboff
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Re: Supermarket Expansion
Merry Christmas.... or is that like totally a capitalist expression of over consumption and a media conspiracy? Meritocracy is a Myth? Class!
Well it is important to remember that God gave his only son to us so that we could know him, know that he has belief in fairness and love, that the meek will inherit the earth.
Well in that case, and as Trashco is shut for 2 whole days, I can only offer you thanks, and my fondest best wishes that your Christmas is a happy and fullfilling one, whether you merit it or not!
Love you!
Rob
Well it is important to remember that God gave his only son to us so that we could know him, know that he has belief in fairness and love, that the meek will inherit the earth.
Well in that case, and as Trashco is shut for 2 whole days, I can only offer you thanks, and my fondest best wishes that your Christmas is a happy and fullfilling one, whether you merit it or not!
Love you!
Rob
http://boboffs.blogspot.co.uk/Millymollymandy wrote:Bloody smilies, always being used. I hate them and they should be banned.
No I won't use a smiley because I've decided to turn into Boboff, as he's turned all nice all of a sudden. Grumble grumble.
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123sologne
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Re: Supermarket Expansion
Hi Bobof,
Merry Christmas to you too! Have a good time no matter what.
And that goes to everyone here and elsewhere!
Merry Christmas!
Merry Christmas to you too! Have a good time no matter what.
And that goes to everyone here and elsewhere!
Merry Christmas!
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paul123456
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Re: Supermarket Expansion
Hello there ,
do they bring any employment ? In NL the supermarkets are crowded with workers in the age of 15 (part timers), and ages up to around 21 .Above that age there are very few to be found , execept for the manager(s).
The big shot on the board rake in a million plus per year .
As for the suppliers , paprika are grown in hectare big greenhouses , they are lucky to get 30c a kilo , look at the selling price .
I wrote before about Chinese organic garlic going in Germany for 1 euro the 3 , chinese farmers get what , 1 or 2 cent's .
Anyone name a good thing thatthe supermarkets do ?
regards,
Paul
do they bring any employment ? In NL the supermarkets are crowded with workers in the age of 15 (part timers), and ages up to around 21 .Above that age there are very few to be found , execept for the manager(s).
The big shot on the board rake in a million plus per year .
As for the suppliers , paprika are grown in hectare big greenhouses , they are lucky to get 30c a kilo , look at the selling price .
I wrote before about Chinese organic garlic going in Germany for 1 euro the 3 , chinese farmers get what , 1 or 2 cent's .
Anyone name a good thing thatthe supermarkets do ?
regards,
Paul
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paul123456
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Re: Supermarket Expansion
hello there ,
if anyone knows how to translate this link , read for yourselve's
http://www.nujij.nl/witbrood-blue-band- ... 2165.lynkx
shows how blue band sells white bread with fibres , wood fibres ,
it does not contain that much though , it hardly burns in the range ,
regards ,
Paul
if anyone knows how to translate this link , read for yourselve's
http://www.nujij.nl/witbrood-blue-band- ... 2165.lynkx
shows how blue band sells white bread with fibres , wood fibres ,
it does not contain that much though , it hardly burns in the range ,
regards ,
Paul
Re: Supermarket Expansion
I hate supermarkets.
Organic Baby Clothes made with natural, sustainable fabrics.
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bonniethomas06
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Re: Supermarket Expansion
I don't like this arguement that the consumer 'chooses' scab-free apples or has the 'choice' to buy anything. Supermarkets foster theappearanceof choice - when really there is none. That is how they make their money.
E.g - Morrisons don't stock much organic cream, because there is no consumer demand. I go to Morrisons (when I am desperate) only to find they don't stock organic cream. Now I don't buy anthing else out of principal (and because I know what is in non-organic cream, but that is another arguement) but would the rushed, busy mother on the way home from work be able to exercise a 'choice' and go to the farmshop down the road (which is closed) to buy organic cream? -no. So not much choice there then, yet Morrisons will say they don't stock it because there is no consumer demand for it.
Apples: Why don't people choose to buy 'scabby' apples? Because we have been so used to perfect fruit and veg for so long - because that is all that supermarkets stocked - that we now see scabby apples as inferior. If supermarkets had never come about, we would not be under this fake perception that perfect apples are normal.
And obesity - the fault of the supermarkets. If you had been to a butchers to get your meat, greengrocer for your veg, baker for your bread, off-licence for wine - would you make the effort to go and find another shop to buy 24 individual packets of monster munch, wagon wheels, cheap cookies, sugary cereals and all of the other junk you buy in a supermarket as well? - I have done it myself, gone into a supermarket to buy one or two things yet because I have a trolly infront of me, walked past displays of 'bargain' cheap sugary crap and chucked it into the trolly.
Supermarkets spend hundreds of thousands of pounds to pay marketing professionals to arrange things on the shelf in a way which makes you put it in your trolly. If you have ever looked into this murky world, you would be amazed. My OH works for a telecoms company which is developing a product which scans where peoples eyes look, while they are shopping. This is so that they can place the things they want you to buy, in these places.
And you think it is about choice??
E.g - Morrisons don't stock much organic cream, because there is no consumer demand. I go to Morrisons (when I am desperate) only to find they don't stock organic cream. Now I don't buy anthing else out of principal (and because I know what is in non-organic cream, but that is another arguement) but would the rushed, busy mother on the way home from work be able to exercise a 'choice' and go to the farmshop down the road (which is closed) to buy organic cream? -no. So not much choice there then, yet Morrisons will say they don't stock it because there is no consumer demand for it.
Apples: Why don't people choose to buy 'scabby' apples? Because we have been so used to perfect fruit and veg for so long - because that is all that supermarkets stocked - that we now see scabby apples as inferior. If supermarkets had never come about, we would not be under this fake perception that perfect apples are normal.
And obesity - the fault of the supermarkets. If you had been to a butchers to get your meat, greengrocer for your veg, baker for your bread, off-licence for wine - would you make the effort to go and find another shop to buy 24 individual packets of monster munch, wagon wheels, cheap cookies, sugary cereals and all of the other junk you buy in a supermarket as well? - I have done it myself, gone into a supermarket to buy one or two things yet because I have a trolly infront of me, walked past displays of 'bargain' cheap sugary crap and chucked it into the trolly.
Supermarkets spend hundreds of thousands of pounds to pay marketing professionals to arrange things on the shelf in a way which makes you put it in your trolly. If you have ever looked into this murky world, you would be amazed. My OH works for a telecoms company which is developing a product which scans where peoples eyes look, while they are shopping. This is so that they can place the things they want you to buy, in these places.
And you think it is about choice??
"A pretty face is fine, but what a farmer needs is a woman who can carry a pig under each arm"
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