self sufficiency and money

[paul123456]

Hello there ,

as i stated earlier , the link between ss and money still keeps appearing on the postings here .

Now it is the way that the banks have been fooling us around for the past 18 months , or is it that the banks have been
fooling us around because we all wanted them to fool us around , in other words make us all even richer ?

The Dutch government , and probably all the european governments helped the banks ,in Holland the dutch
government did it with my money , my tax bill has never been so high .
And I've been involved with corrupt dutch bankers ,as a builder we loved them ,but when SH&*$# hit the fan
they failed to pay their final bills , and then they were bailed out by our government ,the democratic one.

Democratic ,democracy , means the opinion of the majority .What if the majority is wrong ?

So besides all this nonsense above, to be in an ideal situation of ss ,having to do nothing with banks and villans ,
it is handy to be a bit well of ?

As long as people are forced to take loans and mortgages ,they'll all be forced to keep in line with the treadmill,
the one the governement like us to be in .

And so , to be ss as much as possible it means to be as much as far away from the banks and financial system as possible,
or am I wrong ?

regards,

Paul

[contadino]

And so , to be ss as much as possible it means to be as much as far away from the banks and financial system as possible, or am I wrong ?

No, you're right. The more SS you become, the less money you need to earn, and consequently the less tax you pay. I'm classed as well below the poverty line, and pay no tax. The government can do what it likes with the contents of it's coffers - make war, subsidise....er, I mean bail out banks, etc.. My conscience is clear knowing that I do not contribute to the madness.

[Millymollymandy]

Don't you have to pay any property/community taxes in Italy? You can't get away from it in France - two to pay although one is reduced if you are a low earner and I think both reduced if you are over a certain age and a low earner.

[contadino]

Don't you have to pay any property/community taxes in Italy? You can't get away from it in France - two to pay although one is reduced if you are a low earner and I think both reduced if you are over a certain age and a low earner.

2 years ago we had to pay €10 each for a years council tax, but then the rules changed so that properties in the countryside are exempt from paying. It is the norm for people to have a home in town as well as a place in the countryside, so the government decided to raise their revenue from town homes instead.

[Millymollymandy]

Wish they'd do that here! We pay something like about €1,200 a year; yes it's cheap compared to what I understand people are paying in the UK, but it's all very dependant on where you live and the size of your house.

Sorry bit off topic, but not really when you consider that IF you own your own house, in some countries you will still be paying into the govt coffers whether you like it or not.

[the.fee.fairy]

The not paying tax thing - does Italy have private health only?

I'm just wondering what would happen if everyone became selfsufficient and therefore didn't have to pay tax as a result - would there be any healthcare? Any police? Emergency services? These things have to be paid for from somewhere...

I've always been Ish - i had a full time job until recently, and don't resent paying into a system that ultimately i will take from - i just had Thousands of pounds worth of dental surgery, and only had to pay the NHS charges. If i need an ambulance, i ring up and one will come, if i need a fireman, i ring them and they arrive.

If we all stopped paying taxes, where would the funding come from for these things? The answer 'The government' cannot possibly be correct - the government use the money paid in taxes to fund them.

Ok, the bank bail out wasn't a particularly good use of taxes, and nor are all the 'equal opportunities' centres that discrimate against the norm, but there is a lot spent on essentials.

[paul123456]

Hello there ,

so what if everybody was 100% ss and did not pay tax due to very low incomes ?
The system we live in is a system that will never allow that ,there will always be people making big money ,such as bankers.

For the health insurance , I paid in 1999 1500 euro a year for my family as a world wide insurance for health care ,
now 10 years on I think its more like 6000 euro or more , for the same securities ? no way for 50% less.

Seems like the people with money have to look fter the people with less , that's fine with me .
People who have more than others are then taxed higher ,is that a way that the governments tries to level out the difference's
of incomes ?

If so then it seem to be going towards a bit of a communist or socialist idea beased system .Everybody is the same (exept government officials) .No matter who or what you are you all will earn the same , meaning that the government will bank
the rest of you're money.

Governments do need alot nowadays , the Americans dictate what they much purchase ,new fighter jets ,
passports with biometric information .

To be ss kep away from the system as much as possible ,or at least try , as far as one can.
Of course not everybody can do the same ,even if it's only in your mind ,that's a good thing .


regards ,

Paul

[KathyLauren]

Like 'em or hate 'em, the government has a job to do and they need money to do it. If everyone's income was low enough that no one paid income tax, then they'd just change the tax regime: lower the threshold for paying income tax, or switch to a sales tax / value added tax or something else as their primary source of revenue. One way or another, you are going to be paying taxes.

[Millymollymandy]

Paul why do you keep starting new threads on the same subject, instead of just posting on the the thread you already started on this very subject a day or two ago?

Now there are two threads about the very same thing, so I am going to merge them. By the way you don't need to put carriage returns in when you are typing on a computer - it doesn't work the same way as a typewriter. It will justify itself!

[contadina]

You can get free medical treatment in Italy, but a lot of Italians take out a private health insurance policy, which pays the portion of medical bills that isn’t paid by social security. Private health insurance is mandatory for non-EU residents when applying for a visa or residence permit. The charges we've encountered so far have been affordable (20 euros to see a specialist and the same for an X-Ray). Prescriptions are quite high but pharmacists are happy to suggest a cheaper generic option.

State hospitals have a bad reputation in Italy, especially in the south, but I've been impressed when visiting elderly neighbours. Wards are clean, single sex, there are no more than three beds in them and they get four-course organic meals.

[contadino]

I'm just wondering what would happen if everyone became selfsufficient and therefore didn't have to pay tax as a result - would there be any healthcare? Any police? Emergency services? These things have to be paid for from somewhere...

You're right. If noone paid tax, there would be no state funds to provide a welfare state. However, everyone being SS is never going to happen. If it did, I expect that governments would be forced to try & introduce a land tax to push people back into taxable work. Of course that would hit the big landowners (/political contributors) harder than smallholders so would be politically unsavoury.

The tax burden will always fall somewhere. Income tax and council tax are not the only sources of tax revenue - companies pay tax, there are sales taxes, duty, national insurance, etc..

If I had to justify my somewhat selfish point of view to someone, I'd do it on the basis of lifelong tax payments and benefits received. In my last year working, I paid over £60,000 in income tax & NI contributions. The overall tax I must have paid in the 15-or-so years while I saved up to be self-sufficient must be staggering.

I've never used any NHS services, never been arrested or the victim of a crime worth reporting, never had to call on the fire service, never claimed any benefits from the state, was educated privately, etc... In short, I've paid through my nose for most of my life without taking anything back. I don't begrudge the tax I've paid at all, and am now thankful that welfare services are there to provide a safety net should I need one. The amount I've contributed is more than I'd ever be able to draw from the state so my conscience is clear.

[Flo]

Why do we expect so much from the state when we can do so much for ourselves? Doesn't government invent things to do with our money? Income tax was introduced to pay for one war and has been kept going ever since to pay for a myriad of things that are possibly not necessary.

People become less dependent on what they can do for themselves as the government sets about providing more and more "services". Silly system really.

[grahamhobbs]

Why do we expect so much from the state when we can do so much for ourselves?

The problem in Britain is that 'governments' over centuries have stripped us of our ability to be self reliant let alone self sufficient. The pattern of land ownership was established following the Norman conquest, when the land was taken over by a small number of royalty and knights, and has remained in virtually the same pattern of ownership ever since. We have been reduced to working for others, herded into factories and offices, and paying through the nose (rent, mortgage) for the privilige of living in our own country.
There is sufficient land in Britain for every family to have 3 acres of agricultural land and to be truly self sufficient, whilst still having time to do another trade or work.
Those of us who have well worked allotments or even better a smallholding and have gained a small degree of self-sufficiency know what a joy and liberation that this can bring; if only the majority were able to share this privilige.