Early Urban mornings...

[Anne A]

Morning all,
just got in from two hours quiet working in the garden, we have veg beds, chickens, some grass, wildlife pond, compost bins, water barrels, in our 40ft square garden, and are completely surrounded by neighbours, so I did some pond weed clearing, some hoeing, talked to the chickens, all in sotto voice and as quietly as possible, I have 8am on a Sunday as the end of 'quiet time' but still got the glums from our neighbours as they muttered about early morning gardeners, what time do you think is ok to be out about and doing normal things in the garden, like pruning digging and coop cleaning? am I unreasonable? I do share out my eggs and surplus veg with the 'glums' although i suspect the eggs are discarded as being 'dirty'

[Rosendula]

Sorry this is such a long reply. Believe it or not, I've cut it down!

I know how you feel. I always felt that I was being looked at funny for growing soft fruit in my front garden (I try to keep the back garden as the safe play area.) Occasionally I would get shouts of 'get your bushes cut down' before they'd even fruited. However, I have learned that only those who disapprove make their voices heard. Those who do approve and like what you're doing don't say anything.

We're now changing the front garden. We're taking the fruit bushes to the allotment, and we're going to grow some veg in the garden instead. It's taking a long time because things didn't work out right last winter but things have now got quite strange. One next door neighbour is being difficult. Not saying anything - nothing at all, I don't think she's talking to me. But I get the feeling she is bitching about me to her family because they're always looking around the wall and talking to her on her doorstep about my garden. And one of her SILs saw me looking at him through the window while he was doing that and actually signalled that I'm stupid?/crazy?, whatever pointing at the head means. My other next door neighbour is beginning to understand a bit now. I think he didn't like it at first, but he asked me what I was planting and I used it as a cue to tell him my plans. He went away and thought about it, and now seems OK with it all. Yesterday, I gave him some HG new potatoes and he seems very happy with them. I've also given some to the people on the other side of him, and a savoy to a neighbour further up who apparently used to have an allotment until his health put a stop to it. So I'm gradually realising that I need to seek out the ones who don't say anything and treat them to my gifts of food. And those that don't approve get left out. Sod 'em. The result is that the nice people are talking to me more and the not-so-nice people matter less.

Oh, I haven't answered your question. On a weekday, if I was awake at such a ridiculous time I wouldn't have any reservations about pottering quietly about outside from about 6am, and wouldn't do anything noisy like cutting the grass until after 9am. On a weekend, I would start everything an hour later, so 7am and 10am because I know that a lot of people who go out to work like to sleep in, and I don't think it's fair to disturb them. Also, I know my next-door-neighbour (the miserable one) sleeps in until late morning, and I have always tried hard not to disturb her, although it doesn't seem to make her any less miserable.

Here's a hug . Stop worrying about the glums, they don't matter. Take heed of Snapdragon's signature - Those who mind don't matter, and those that matter don't mind - it's helped me when I've felt self-conscious. And I suggest you stop giving food to the glums and give it to nice people instead - even if that means you have to walk up the street and knock on the door of someone you don't normally talk to.

[Graye]

That's a hard one. Sound carries so clearly on a quiet morning so even the rattle of chicken feed going into the tin would probably sound loud across 40 feet. There is probably no legal definition of "unacceptable" if it is normal living noises though and I suspect you needn't worry about it infringing any laws.

Here in France our house is slightly raised from the others around and we seem to hear noise so clearly even though the nearest neighbour is about 100 yards away. On Friday I actually went out to locate what I thought was a loud noise - it was just a neighbout hosing his car. Then we have the ongoing problem of an old lady who IS deaf and whose visitors insist on shrieking at her from not very close range. If we could actually understand the strange patois the locals speak I would be hearing every word of their conversation - again 100 yards away. And then there are the bells from the church next door...

When we are in Whitby and because of the style of the little cottages there, we are actually ON TOP of another tiny bedsit (the owner calls it "a cosy cottage" in his advertising blurb as he lets it out). We have had people knocking on the door at 10 past 10 at night complaining about the noise our breadmaker is making in the kitchen (sorry but our kitchen and dining room is above their bedroom), others have gone completely ballistic about us having a dinner party and we even were reported to environmental health and got the standard "we may monitor you" letter after watching a late film. Oh yes, and two bemused policemen arrived at 11 one night after being called. They looked most uncomfortable and said we had been reported for playing a drum kit! I would just love to have enough room to accommodate one but unfortunately there isn't. On the other hand we have to put up with yappy little dogs left while their owners go out and leave them and an inordinate amount of "guests" who seem to have hearing problems and no idea of how to entertain themselves if the full-blast TV from morning to night is anything to go by.

Fortunately the "guests" normally go away after a week but you have a more ongoing problem. I would tell them it's just the swings and roundabouts of normal living. NO doubt they do stuff which makes a noise at times you find inconvenient, they just wouldn't be normal if they didn't. It's just a matter of give and take.

8am seems reasonable enought to me but to others it might seem otherwise. I'd be interested to see what everyone else thinks though...

[the.fee.fairy]

I've got to be the voice of the Glums here...

Do any of them work shifts? I work into the night (i finish at 12:30am) so often don't get to bed until 2/3 in the morning. The thing is, someone doing any kind of noisy work would be the equivalent of me starting up a lawnmower when i get home...

So although i do understand that you do quiet jobs, just have an ask and see if there are any shift workers - we had builders in next door and i was getting 4 hours sleep a night because i'd get into bed at normal time, and they'd start work at 7:30/8 in the morning.

People don't often think of those who work shifts - i have people who ask if i want to go for a coffee at 10am because 'you'll be at work in the evening'. If i'm feeling generous, i'll go. If not, then i'll exaplin that yes, i'll go for coffee, and then next week we can go at 5am - 4 hours before they start work!

[StripyPixieSocks]

Myself and CP both sleep in late as we either go to bed late or don't sleep well due to insomnia so we often get woken up by people ringing the doorbell (Jehovas Witness' at 9am anyone?) or doing 'stuff' which sometimes wakes us and yes we can be quite abrupt about it and 'glum'.

Sometimes it's OK but sometimes it's 'them downstairs' slamming doors or having 6 people and 3 kids in a one bedroomed TINY flat below us screaming and generally being as obnoxious as they can make themselves or 80's man next door jet washing his path for 5 hours on three effing days then we get really peed off and angry.

Have to say though, what you were doing didn't seem extremely noisy so in all honestly from a probably pair of glums, we wouldn't be bothered at all.

I do know all too well the hassle of night workers as my father was a policeman who worked all kinds of shifts sometimes getting in at 7am after 8 long hours and then the neighbours starting the lawn mower at 9 or 10am waking him up!

If they aren't shift workers maybe they would prefer screaming kids or a barking dog at 8am... the law forbids noise before 7am in the morning and after 11pm at night... and unless it is 'unreasonable' between the times allowed (is making noise around shift workers or babies sleeping etc) then they can just carry on muttering... sod them!

[MuddyWitch]

Having been woken on our only day off at 7.14am by some thoughtless b*****d in a hot air balloon I'm GLUM! They were really low & 'burning' like crazy scarring or anoying all the dogs, cat, urban foxes etc in the area. The moron waved at me when I opened the velux to see what the noise was!(loft bedroom) Needless to say I 'waved' back but only two of my fingers were awake!

Our neighbour regularly thinks if he's up so should we be, at 5.30-6am. However he also regularly complains that our telly keeps him awake...he goes to bed at 9pm prompt. (For the record we rarely have the telly on & it's the announcements from a local 24 hour T€$cos he can hear)

We have had such a bellyfull of inconsiderate neighbours that our list of requirement for our next house start with 'at least 100feet from the nearest neighbour in any direction'

I think Rosie's got it about right; we always try to be quiet between 7pm & 9am & always warn neighbours if we need to do summat really noisy & ask if there's a particular time they like us to avoid. (One old neighbour was a tea time 'neighbours' fan)

MW

[Millymollymandy]

From the replies on this thread it seems to boil down to whether you are a morning or an evening person. I'm a morning person so I'd be perfectly happy with noise at 8am but not at 10pm at night.

My inlaws called just after 10pm last night which to me is an absolute no-no - most of the time I'm asleep or falling asleep at that time but even if I am still awake it is way too late for me to be able to make any kind of chatty conversation. They don't understand (even after 14 years ) that there is a time difference between mainland Europe and England. I keep threatening to call them at 7am one day which will be 6am their time.....

[Rosendula]

I quite agree MMM. Although I'm an evening person, I would be annoyed if anyone rant me after about 10pm. After a hectic day (and isn't every day hectic when you're Ish?), what I want to do when I finally get LO to bed is sit down with OH and relax. I don't want to have to be alert any more. I personally wouldn't ring anyone before 9:30 unless I knew them to be an evening person and they had told me I could ring late, and I wouldn't ring anyone before 9am, or 10am on a Sunday.

[Millymollymandy]

I should have said that actually I don't really need to make chatty conversation with the inlaws as they are on speaker phone at their end and I hear both of them - and they generally just talk or argue to/with each other and the conversation is always about various hospital/specialist/doctor's appointments/ailments, so I just mumble and grunt to make out that I'm listening, whilst watching telly or half dozing .....

[oldfella]

Ain't it grand to be retired and live in area where every one is an early bird, like this morning my neighbour passed at o6. 30 to drop of some onion sets for me, and whilst we sat with coffee another saw us and called in to see if we wanted a couple of rabbits he had shot earlier .
However when I go out to check the animals before turning in at 10 o'clock all the neighbours lights are out, so I have no problems about making a noise in the mornings cos they are doing the same thing.

[ajs88]

i think it depends on how noisy your street is, what is the level of noise from traffic and does your gardening exceed this?

[red]

depends how close your neighbours are to where you are working. I'm guessing pretty close.

We get up at 6 each morning, to check the animals, feed the pigs, let out the chickens but they are not next door to someones house, although we have to walk past to get to them. but thats all we do . oin a sunday.. after that we go to bed again until a sensible hour!

I think hoeing, pruning, chatting (quietly) to hens, digging and clearing out the coup etc are actually all fairly noisey.. not the same as starting up the strimmer true.. but particularly at this time of year when people have their windows open, yes .. it would wake them, and most people regard Sunday as not a day to be woken early.

do you *have* to work outside at this time? aren't there indoor things you could be doing until 8? and actually 8 is pretty early for some on a Sunday.

Unless you have a pretty good reason for working outside at 6am on a sunday morning, then, knowing it annoys the neighbours and doing it anyway.. yes.. I would have to say you were being unreasonable.