installing a multifuel central heating system

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lynnandrob
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installing a multifuel central heating system

Post: # 271432Post lynnandrob
Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:03 pm

throuout this post i will be asking for advice on installing a mulifule boiler stove,and posting links to pictures of the work as it progress's

the house(bungalow) we have bought is about 20years old and off grid (which we hope to have connected to the grid within the next 2 years),it does however have mains water but thats all.

i will be installing a mulifuel boiler stove eventualy but for now ill be installing a cheap n nasty stove that will keep us warm whilst we are doing work on the house,
[img=http://s20.postimage.org/jxz04hffd/100_2798.jpg]

WHY INSTALL ONE STOVE JUST TO REPLACE IT WITH ONOTHER I HEAR YOU ASK

well the answer is quite simple,the property keeps getting unwanted visitors that nick anything and everthing of value.fortunatly they have not broken into the house yet but why tempt fate by advertising £££££ worth of free stove thats just ripe for the nicking.in an attempt to save the house from damage we have installed upvc Composite Doors and security grills on all the windows.

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/df1kdtduh/2nd_bedroom.jpg]

and leave the curtains open so they can see theres nothing worth breaking in for.
the stove that will be installed now has removable doors and top that will be taken home with us leaving only a fivers worth of scrap if they should look throu the windows and decide they wanted it anyway,

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/jxz04hffd/100_2798.jpg]

once the house is up and running this stove will be removed from the house and will be installed in the office area/room.

at the moment i need advice as to weather i need to install a flue liner or not,from what i can make out/see there is nothing wrong with the chimney as it is,althou fire place opening is only 20"(h) x 20"(w) x 6.5"/7" (d)-(from the plaster not the the brickwork,inc brick about 11") making it very small for the room size

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/iuaaes5eh/fire ... x_20in.jpg]
[img=http://s20.postimage.org/uko7w5y6x/insi ... himney.jpg]
[img=http://s20.postimage.org/l1ej2paop/roun ... himney.jpg]

but i will be opening the fire place up making the entrance higher and wider and building what i call a chimney breast,to accomadate the boiler pipes that will be fed into the boiler cupboard

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/ffs3yn9zt/100_1724.jpg]

throu the loft.eventually looking something like this

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/rj20zyaft/boil ... um_fed.jpg]

im not sure how wide the round flue pipe is but id say probably 8" min but it does have a bend about half way down

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/vx5wy1vmh/9ft_ ... y_bend.jpg]

meaning inserting a 6" steel liner could be a problem or tricky to say the least.

lynnandrob
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Re: installing a multifuel central heating system

Post: # 271433Post lynnandrob
Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:05 pm

sorry the links are not working,ill have to try something else?

GeorgeSalt
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Re: installing a multifuel central heating system

Post: # 271438Post GeorgeSalt
Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:04 pm

bbcode errors on the image links.. easily fixed.
lynnandrob wrote:throuout this post i will be asking for advice on installing a mulifule boiler stove,and posting links to pictures of the work as it progress's

the house(bungalow) we have bought is about 20years old and off grid (which we hope to have connected to the grid within the next 2 years),it does however have mains water but thats all.

i will be installing a mulifuel boiler stove eventualy but for now ill be installing a cheap n nasty stove that will keep us warm whilst we are doing work on the house,
Image

WHY INSTALL ONE STOVE JUST TO REPLACE IT WITH ONOTHER I HEAR YOU ASK

well the answer is quite simple,the property keeps getting unwanted visitors that nick anything and everthing of value.fortunatly they have not broken into the house yet but why tempt fate by advertising £££££ worth of free stove thats just ripe for the nicking.in an attempt to save the house from damage we have installed upvc Composite Doors and security grills on all the windows.

Image

and leave the curtains open so they can see theres nothing worth breaking in for.
the stove that will be installed now has removable doors and top that will be taken home with us leaving only a fivers worth of scrap if they should look throu the windows and decide they wanted it anyway,

Image

once the house is up and running this stove will be removed from the house and will be installed in the office area/room.

at the moment i need advice as to weather i need to install a flue liner or not,from what i can make out/see there is nothing wrong with the chimney as it is,althou fire place opening is only 20"(h) x 20"(w) x 6.5"/7" (d)-(from the plaster not the the brickwork,inc brick about 11") making it very small for the room size

Image
Image
Image

but i will be opening the fire place up making the entrance higher and wider and building what i call a chimney breast,to accomadate the boiler pipes that will be fed into the boiler cupboard

Image

throu the loft.eventually looking something like this

Image

im not sure how wide the round flue pipe is but id say probably 8" min but it does have a bend about half way down

Image

meaning inserting a 6" steel liner could be a problem or tricky to say the least.
Curently collecting recipes for The Little Book of Liqueurs..

GeorgeSalt
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Re: installing a multifuel central heating system

Post: # 271439Post GeorgeSalt
Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:09 pm

I would get a qualified sweep to inspect the flue.

What came out of the fireplace? - open fire, baxi, stove or lpg gas?
Curently collecting recipes for The Little Book of Liqueurs..

lynnandrob
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Re: installing a multifuel central heating system

Post: # 271441Post lynnandrob
Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:41 pm

that is the fire place,its an open fire with a cast iron grate.as for a chimney sweep i intend doing it myself first im going to give it a good clean then get the camera down from the top just to see if there are any cracks in the liner or much missing from the joints.

lynnandrob
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Re: installing a multifuel central heating system

Post: # 271442Post lynnandrob
Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:47 pm

sorry georgesalt,

forgot to say thanks for sorting out the links to the pics,ill post some more in the near future hopefully they will work correctly.

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Re: installing a multifuel central heating system

Post: # 271444Post GeorgeSalt
Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:53 am

If there's a solid fuel grate and you want to sweep yourself (a HETAS engineer always asks for a sign-off from qualified sweep), why install the stove and not just use the open fire? It's nowhere near as efficient as the stove, but it's the least effort option this late into winter 2012/3 - particularly if you intend to replace it before winter 2013/4.

And I'm not sure how realistic firing the stove whilst you're working onsite and then taking the top and door home with you is. These bits are going to get *hot* whilst the stove is running. If it's a cast iron stove each piece will have a high thermal mass that will take time to cool down.


It all sounds a bit negative, but I'm not sure you've thought everything through.
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Crickleymal
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Re: installing a multifuel central heating system

Post: # 271447Post Crickleymal
Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:35 am

That's my opinion too. Much easier just to leave the grate in place and use that. Plus it'll draw more air through and ventilate the house nicely as well.
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lynnandrob
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Re: installing a multifuel central heating system

Post: # 271453Post lynnandrob
Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:22 pm

hi guys and thanks for your valid points,

first of all i think i should apolagize for not explaining the situation from the beginning,

when we bought the house theives had broken in,they had nicked the generator,battery bank,central heating system and anything else they could lay their hands on,also causing the ceilings to collapse with the water damage.

since we have owned the property i have installed security grills on the generator rooms windows and door,security grills on all the house windows and composite doors on the house,also a 20ft shipping container secured by 2 hardened steel padlocks on the locking bars and a thick hardened steel chain threaded throu the top of the locking bars (about 6ft off the ground) and fastened with a huge hardened steel padlock.all this was done for the security of any bits that would be left on site and to help deter the little f----- from nicking what was there.unfotunatly they paid a visit around bonfire night and cut all the locks ect off with a style saw and nicked what they could find,as luck would have it they didnt go into the house probably because i leave the curtains open so they can see theres nothing to take.hense the cheap fire with removable doors,(if they are willing to risk being caught for a fivers worth of scrap more fool them,as it would cost more to replace the doors and top than the stove is worth)

the doors will be removed and placed in the garden to cool before being taken home.

weve had the house for just over a year now,last winter we did try to stay there on the weekends while i did some work around the place while using the open fire for heat,the problem was the fire place is too small (only 20" wide at the front narrowing to about 12"/14" at the back X 6.5" deep) meaning the small amounts of wood or coal that was put on burnt away very quickly and all the heat went up the chimney as it pulled the air throu the room,which is why i think the smoke damage on the fire place was caused by the previous owners having the fire too big for the fire place,plus at that time they had cental heating fitted throu out the house and that is why i intend to install a cheap stove for now.

with regards to

If there's a solid fuel grate and you want to sweep yourself (a HETAS engineer always asks for a sign-off from qualified sweep), why install the stove and not just use the open fire? It's nowhere near as efficient as the stove, but it's the least effort option this late into winter 2012/3 - particularly if you intend to replace it before winter 2013/4

the one thing ive learnt in my life is always allow twice as much time to do a job as you think it will take,

whilst we are hoping to be connected to the grid in around the 2 years (barring any unforseen circumstances) i dont think all the work needed will be done for at least a few more after that as we only go down when i have the time so most of the final/expensive fittings ,boiler stove ,water tank ect will be left untill the last thing.there may also be things that need buying or replacing due to theft or which just cost more than i thought (things needed to get the place up and running).so as well as trying to keep warm while the ceilings are fixed and plastered i will also be sorting out the generator/battery bank so we will have power,installing a security camera system,burglar alarm flood lights,getting the walls plastered,fitting a new kitchen,cutting trees down/up for fire wood in the future,fitting new guttering(that was stolen) and any other little jobs i can find like leaving little suprizes for unwanted visitors.

i hope this has explained things a little better and thanks again.

links to some security pics

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/df1kdtduh/2nd_bedroom.jpg]
[img=http://s20.postimage.org/kvwj4fiah/gene ... dlocks.jpg]


rob

lynnandrob
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Re: installing a multifuel central heating system

Post: # 271454Post lynnandrob
Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:24 pm

sorry about the naff drawings, but you get the picture.

my plan so far is --

i intend to remove all the brick work from around the fire making it a flat wall,remove the open fire leaving a open space for the stove to be recessed as it only has a top flue,install a register plate in the chimney and feed the flue into that.

picure 1 shows how if will look from the top (2) from the front and 3 shows how the boiler stove will be fitted (when the time comes)when fitting the boiler stove i will have built a chimney breast onto the straight wall ,fed the flue throu the back into the chimney stack and installed the heating pipes up the collums of the chimney breast into the loft and down into the boiler cupboard.
i know the pics are not the best but its being over 40yrs since i last saw how a chimney was constructed and i had a sledge hammer in my hand at the time so not paying too much attention to how it was built just the best way to knock it down+they didnt bother with insulation back then.

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/9grsb2p21/fires_locations.jpg]

this photo is what it should look like when recessed (minus the fancy wood work)

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/t22h21nbt/recessed_stove.jpg]

these photos show how the boiler stove/chimney breast will be installed and where the pipes will go (dont forget the chimney breast will be built onto a flat wall enabling the pipes to be easily accesable)

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/lo9axuz4p/chimney_breast.jpg]
[img=http://s20.postimage.org/rj20zyaft/boil ... um_fed.jpg]

my problem is when fitting the boilerstove with the flue from the back,do you just vent into the open space where the old fire was(thats what i think) or do you need to some how get a piece of bent liner that connects from the round pipe up the chimney and connect this to the back of the stove.?

[img=http://s20.postimage.org/fee1auzq1/image.jpg]

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