Veganism not an option any more

[Zech]

Its also fatigue, really poor memory and clumsiness, and not healing properly from my clumsiness.

That's an exact description of the symptoms I get following (not during, but after) prolonged stress.

I think this kind of general 'low' can be caused by all sorts of things, including diet. The thing with the diet theory is that it's easy to test and you can expect to see a difference fairly quickly if you change your diet. I'd suggest that if you don't see a marked improvement within about a month of introducing meat into your diet, you can probably rule that out and start looking for other explanations.

Disclaimer: I'm not a nutritionist, I'm just basing this on what I've heard from other people who've had similar experiences.

[demi]

Disclaimer: I'm not a nutritionist, I'm just basing this on what I've heard from other people who've had similar experiences.

Just to point out, nutritionists are quacks, you should see a dietitian:

http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2012/01 ... nists.html

[Zech]

Oops, sorry, got the wrong word.
Well I'm not a dietician, either!

[citizentwiglet]

Sulis / Flower Hercules....

Sorry, I've just skimmed through this and I don't have any idea if you are even male or female, so I'm dead sorry about that.

If you are female, do you use a contraceptive coil, by any chance?

I know of several women who have described EXACTLY your symptoms, and it caused by a build up of copper, usually from a coil, that is not looked for in the standard blood tests. My one friend had her coil removed, and the symptoms completely disappeared within a fortnight.

[mrsflibble]

I second CT up there, but only because the exact same thing was on an episode of House once LOL!!!

and if there's high levels of copper in your blood form an external (i.e. not naturally occurring in your body) source, your body can't get rid of it. copper can accumulate in the liver, making your metaboilism begin to shut down.

[flower_hercules]

SusieGee, Thank you for restoring me to the forum!

No I don't use the coil, but have considered it for the future (maybe not if I already have B12 problems!).

I have been eating line caught fish every day for a week to boost my B12 levels, and omegas too; already the difference is quite marked. I am remembering things so well now I can get through a conversation without having to ask for words or names I can't think of, which my family have all noted (I'm only 32 so this really shouldn't be a problem!). I have stopped bumping into everything daily, and went for a 10 mile walk yesterday, something that I would not have had the energy to do for more than about 5 miles before, and I even felt fine this morning instead of cream-crackered. I wasn't expecting results this quickly.

Someone said something to me about different genetic types; like Ellendra said about enzymes and some people not being able to produce all the right ones. Is there evidence for this? that some people can be vegan long term and some can't? I certainly felt I did all the right things nutrition and lifestyle wise.

[diggernotdreamer]

My friend was a vegetarian for 20 years or so. She kept feeling run down etc she went to an ayurverdic person (probably a quack Demi) and he told her she should include meat or fish in her diet because of her type, hocum?? don't know but she certainly felt the benefits when including the fish and chicken. I want to know if there are any vegan tribes in the world, most cultures include milk, eggs etc. My dad is a vegan and so is his wife, around the same time, they both developed neurological problems don't know if that is connected or not but it is interesting that they both have these illnesses.

[demi]

Jain Buddhists are strictly vegetarian and some sects are also vegan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_vegetarianism

[Flo]

I'm 97% vegan (well you know, milk gets in tea when out and butter gets used) and daughter is 100% vegan as she's dairy intolerant. You do have to do a bit of study to ensure that you are making the effort to cover all bases with your diet. You can't be an uneducated vegan and healthy.

I'm 67 and fitter than when I were a youth on a conventional carnivore diet (well wasn't worth defying parents to that degree). But I do make the effort to ensure that it's a wide and varied vegan diet.

[gregorach]

Jain Buddhists are strictly vegetarian and some sects are also vegan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_vegetarianism

Yeah, but I believe that research has shown that they unknowingly consume a surprising amount of insects, or at least they did until they started eating food processed to modern standards. These days, I think they mostly use supplements.

[diggernotdreamer]

I wondered if there were any tribes of people that had to be vegan, not people who were on religious or ethical grounds

[demi]

I wondered if there were any tribes of people that had to be vegan, not people who were on religious or ethical grounds

I doubt that. There is always edible bugs around for protein in a foraging diet, even if they're not catching animals for meat.

There are tribes of people who don't keep animals for milk and they are all lactose intolerant as they have never needed to evolve the tolerance gene. We all used to be lactose intolerant past the age of about 5 when a child is fully weaned. In cultures which started to heard animals and milk them, the people gradually became milk tolerant into adult hood, as those who were able to drink milk into a later age would have been better nourished and less likely to die as a child and then they would grow up and reproduce and pass on the genes to their offspring. Thus our milk drinking cultures today are mainly lactose tolerant.

[GeorgeSalt]

I wondered if there were any tribes of people that had to be vegan, not people who were on religious or ethical grounds

Unlikely.. the largest vegan animal I can think of is a fruit bat, and when I think about it I suspect even they consume a few insects and bugs that are living in over-ripe fruit. You need the luxury of a reasonably advanced society to be able to afford not to consume meat on at least an opportunistic basis.

[Annemieke]

People are different. Plus, as you get older you develop all sorts of minor and major imperfections. I happily was a vegetarian for years, never so much as thought of meat. Then I was treated for cancer (cervical - chemoradiation) and after that my digestion was messed up. I could not absorb nutrients well and lost electrolytes in my urine. It was a matter of either expensive (artificial) supplements or eating meat! Not a lot, just say twice a week. I'm fine as long as I do that, and have various supplements as well, even so.
My husband was a veggie too, for years, till he started to get fatigued. It lasted and lasted till he started eating (red) meat. Now he eats meat every day and seems to thrive on it. Supplements might have helped him, but he is not that sort of person.
I think we should accept that we, and our digestions, are different, without judging.
And when eating meat, eat the good stuff: from top to tail (http://readmeatdc.blogspot.co.uk/2009/0 ... -tail.html), and organic, or at least free range.
With love from Annemieke Wigmore, Somerset UK: http://thoughtforfood-aw.blogspot.com.

[mrsflibble]

I wondered if there were any tribes of people that had to be vegan, not people who were on religious or ethical grounds

I doubt that. There is always edible bugs around for protein in a foraging diet, even if they're not catching animals for meat.

There are tribes of people who don't keep animals for milk and they are all lactose intolerant as they have never needed to evolve the tolerance gene. We all used to be lactose intolerant past the age of about 5 when a child is fully weaned. In cultures which started to heard animals and milk them, the people gradually became milk tolerant into adult hood, as those who were able to drink milk into a later age would have been better nourished and less likely to die as a child and then they would grow up and reproduce and pass on the genes to their offspring. Thus our milk drinking cultures today are mainly lactose tolerant.

I kinda like the idea that my family are a dying breed hahahaha
(we're all LI)