country at a standstill "why"

[old tree man]

I can never understand as soon as it snows this country cannot cope, i can .......and i knew it was coming because they told us, i had salt ready wich i also use to defrost the car ... our path was cleared away so how come the councils cannot even keep the path clear near old peoples residences or the major routes around our area, in scandanavia, canada and other countrys in the northern hemisphere can cope
why can't we............................................................!

[Green Aura]

We do up here Russ, the roads are rarely impassable - not for long anyway.

There was an article on the BBC News site a couple of days ago. The guy in charge of keeping the Highlands roads clear was being interviewed and he said that up here it's an easy decision to make - we get snow so we need the infrastructure to clear it - even the lawnmowers convert to snowplough/gritters in the winter. Further south, where it's not such a certainty, especially given the number of years we didn't get any snow, it's a much harder financial decision to make.

So it's down to money again! Why am I not surprised.

I was writing this as Susie was posting.

[snapdragon]

I blame lack of/poor driver training, drivers unable to cope with the conditions were abandoning cars all over the shop

I reckon the snow started as the evening rush started, and the spinning and abandoned cars were blocking most of the M3 thus stopping the gritters from getting on to the road. They don't expect to need the gritters except when very low temperatures are expected as the traffic generally turns snow to mush and water quite quickly. I doubt if they have any snowploughs.

Two friends stuck in it all, one took four hours to get from Didcot to Newbury and the other took five and a half hours to get from Andover to Basingstoke, a distance of less than 20 miles.

[MKG]

Funnily enough, we were discussing this very thing earlier. I think it's down to bad memories and unreasonable expectations. Someone emailed BBC News to ask why we didn't cope when other European countries did - completely forgetting the reports from Poland of people freezing to death. Other people complained about Eurostar trains as though it was a peculiarly British problem - but it was the severe conditions in France which began it all (OK - coupled with the questionable technical policies of a multinational company).

And those roads - there was a time not so long ago when most families in Britain did NOT own a car, and they lived near their workplaces. That's the transport problem solved, then. Only bus routes were ever cleared, but now people demand that snow is cleared all the way to their own drives. And, I suppose, the other thing is the "Great British Christmas Getaway". Once again, most people stayed home for Christmas. The Eurostar fiasco was certainly compounded by people turning up regardless, merely because they had tickets - which is a bit like ticket holders for the Titanic's second voyage turning up on the quayside just in case.

There was a reporter on the telly this morning, saying that only four-wheel drive vehicles and cars with snow-chains fitted were moving. There's a tiny bit of a clue there for all those "Why can't we cope?" complainers. Russ is coping. I'm coping. I bet most people on this site are coping. What they really mean is "I couldn't be arsed to do anything for myself - now why isn't anyone else doing it for me?"

End of rant

Mike

[gdb]

We've had tons of snow. And bitter temperatures. But no roads are closed. No abandoned vehicles. Everyone still gets up and goes to work/school.

I'm sure it's right that money makes a difference but I think there might be other things as well....

1 Winter tyres are compulsory. And that must help a lot. Especially as many of the smaller roads are not cleared. The snow falls. We drive on top of it.

2 I think there is a difference to the snow. I might be talking rubbish and I know this sounds like a British Rail type excuse but over here the snow seems to be very lightweight. A big shovelful weighs next to nothing. So it's very easy to dig out. And it also seems to compact really easily.

3 Roads are practically empty. So even if the snow comes in sudden and heavy, no-one is left sitting in a tailback and stuck in the snow.

4 There is also a feeling of "well, we have to cope, it could be like this for the next 3 months". So you can't take a day off or close the school every time it snows.


Or, then again, maybe it's just something in the Glogg they all drink...

[gdb]

We do up here Russ, the roads are rarely impassable - not for long anyway.

There was an article on the BBC News site a couple of days ago. The guy in charge of keeping the Highlands roads clear was being interviewed and he said that up here it's an easy decision to make - we get snow so we need the infrastructure to clear it - even the lawnmowers convert to snowplough/gritters in the winter. Further south, where it's not such a certainty, especially given the number of years we didn't get any snow, it's a much harder financial decision to make.

So it's down to money again! Why am I not surprised.

I was writing this as Susie was posting.

I've got one of those lawnmowers!

It's called a "Snöslunga" (Snow Slinger). You fit the attachment on the front. And push the 'mower' along your drive. And it blows all the snow away.

Very handy when you have a lonnnnggggg drive to clear most days...

[snapdragon]

. ...... - which is a bit like ticket holders for the Titanic's second voyage turning up on the quayside just in case.

now why isn't anyone else doing it for me?"



Mike

oooo rofl titanic tickets

you are so right Mike - selfsufficiency is a lot of different things (I do the working within walking distance or used to til they moved)

[Helsbells]

It took my poor husband 6 hours to get home from Oxford to Reading yesterday. Normally takes him an hour. He didnt actually have any problems as such but was stuck because of the traffic. Other cars driving too fast and skidding all over the place, cars being abandoned and blocking the roads, cars not being able to get up hills due to skidding etc. OH said that the worst cars were any of the rear wheel drive cars, and that there were a lot of 4x4's abnadones and skidding around because they didnt have the right tyres.

Needless to say, he hasnt gone to work today...

[Gert]

It's an interesting one, we were chatting about it the other night and were discussing how long we could realisitically survive without having to venture out at all. I won't tell you what our conclusion was, but I don't think we'd need to panic. Although I think a few of the livestock might

You lot are a pretty hardy and inventive bunch, out of interest how long do you think you could survive without a visit to the shops ? If you didn't have to go to work or school etc.

[contadina]

While I believe it's silly to fight nature (if the roads are bad stay at home even if you haven't finished your Christmas shopping). I also think the UK suffers from a lot of infrastructure under-investment. Their are many reasons for this, but a major one has been the economic development policy of the past 30 years to offer more favourable business incentives than other European nations.

Low corporation tax and other incentives are fine when the economy is booming, even if the roads and rail are a bit shoddy; but when direct investment levels drop it leaves the country more vulnerable to any chinks in the chain.

On the flip side, countries with higher tax levels (be they business or personal) continually invest in infrastructure so are better prepared when the economy takes a nose-dive.

[snapdragon]

I think the problem here Contadina is that investment in infrastructure in this country is generally stated in the press to be Subsidy - which the public are encouraged to rage against.

[Green Aura]

there was a time not so long ago when most families in Britain did NOT own a car, and they lived near their workplaces

We were talking about this at the weekend too. We did have a car and (edit - Dad) drove to work most days but in deep snow, which we had every year, he walked the 2 miles to work.

Life didn't stop because of snow, we often had to battle to the bottom of the garden to pick psb and sprouts. Dad still managed to get up the road for a pint. We went to the corner shop or up to the village, as usual, for our groceries. I don't ever remember getting even one day off school because of bad weather. It merely took longer, you moved more carefully, and dodged snowballs from lads hiding behind garden walls

Now I'm officially a grumpy old woman

[Millymollymandy]

I never got a day off school for snow either! Not fair!!!

We used to have to change to winter tyres when we lived near Geneva - but we didn't need them because all roads were cleared and the snowplough used to come regular as clockwork every single morning (when necessary) up our PRIVATE drive! All pavements were cleared too and supermarket car parks etc. So there actually was never any need to walk on snow or ice unless you went up the mountains or walked on your own land!

And it was very easy to buy big sacks of salt to clear your own steps, patios etc but I don't think you can find that in areas where it snows once in a blue moon, like where I am. It's still frozen on our gravel and would be very hard to get the car out, but thankfully we did all our shopping last Friday in the snow, but it wasn't ice then!

[Thomzo]

I agree that a lot of it is laziness. Did any one of those cars that got stuck have a shovel in the boot? Did they take any grit with them? Doesn't look like it. They just expect to be able to carry on as normal despite 6 inches of snow and whinge because someone else hasn't sorted the problem out.

gdb, I agree about the type of snow. What we had here was very wet and heavy. A shovel-full weighs a ton (well maybe a few pounds anyway) which makes shovelling it very hard work (especially for overweight, unfit, Brits).

Zoe

[MKG]

It's an interesting one, we were chatting about it the other night and were discussing how long we could realisitically survive without having to venture out at all. I won't tell you what our conclusion was, but I don't think we'd need to panic. Although I think a few of the livestock might

You lot are a pretty hardy and inventive bunch, out of interest how long do you think you could survive without a visit to the shops ? If you didn't have to go to work or school etc.

Well, that made us think a bit. As we're now retired, we don't have to worry about work or school, so ...

We got it all worked out and then it struck us - the dog. We couldn't feed the dog for any great length of time independently, given his taste for pig's ears - we don't breed a lot of those. So if we have to include the dog - which we would, of course - then not very long. But if it was a simple "How long would the two of us survive?" then things become simpler. And we reckon that ...

Given a constant supply of water and power (a lack of which would kill us off in fairly short order), we could survive for three months without changing anything at all - we'd still eat and drink the same stuff. If we'd had previous warning of such an emergency state, we could closely examine what we had and change our habits. If we did that, we could probably survive for 5 months - 6 at a great push. Hopefully, the shops would have re-opened by then because if we started that period now, that would dump us in June. Great weather, but there's not an awful lot to eat in June if you're depending upon crops.

There are a lot of rabbits and pigeons around here, so I reckon they could add a bit to our estimate - but they'd thin down soon enough if they were being cropped seriously.

I was honestly hoping I'd be able to say that we'd survive for a year - but I can't. Thank goodness I'm an Isher rather than a complete survivalist - I don't think we'd have a chance. But there's a silver lining - as things stand, I could keep us in wine for two years. Phew!

Thanks for cheering me up

Mike