Mareks Disease - Beware New Chicken Keepers

[Bezzie]

Hello everyone

I've been away from the forum for quite a while and I've been having problems with my flock throughout the summer.

It all started when I got 5 new girls from the breeder I got my original flock from last year. The new girls were from the same batch of hatch as my original flock. I wasn't convinced they were as healthy as she insisted and I DID quarantine them. I wormed everyone (new girls and flock), and they all had a dose of antibiotics from the vets to eliminate anything else that might be going on.

The new girls never did come into lay, and gradually the condition and lay of my original flock diminished. At first I thought it was an early moult. Not so lucky. I took a dead bird and a live bird to the vet.

Seems they were never vaccinated against Marek's disease, and slowly I've lost them, one by one. Anything we've tried hasn't brought them back up to health. They look great and healthy! The tonics keeps the feather growth going. Septicaemia sets in after the Mareks takes hold. Egg production goes to zero and the weight loss is tremendous.

This morning I woke up to a tearful father who'd gone in to get the feed pots, and found another one dead. Talking to the vet, it's now time that I must cull the remainder of the flock at the end of the week and take them up to the vets for disposal.

It's been a highly expensive initiation into chicken keeping.

Anyone reading this forum who's thinking about starting up in chicken keeping, please, please, PLEASE check to see that they have been innoculated against Mareks disease before taking them to your home. They must be innoculated by three weeks old. Once they have Mareks, there's no treatment and you will eventually lose your birds.

I am so dissappointed in the way we have found this out. We believed we were buying from a highly regarded breeder, and indeed they are a registered Rare Breed Farm. It was a huge setup.

I think the part that alerted me to something wrong was the way she was talking about giving up chickens completely and sticking to the pigs and sheep they have. Something in her voice just didn't sit right with me and I started looking to the vet almost immediately that we got that second batch home. I'm wondering if she had been lax with her breeding programme and allowed Mareks to get in.

It's been an 18month journey from pullet to death, with the last 10 months being more about death. I know my husband will suggest that we forget about setting up with a new flock, and it will be the end of a dream that I had for more than 20yrs.

I had White Jersey Giants, Derbyshire Redcaps, and Light Sussex - so don't go thinking it's breed selective and you can get away with it.

[theabsinthefairy]

Oh Bezzie - that sounds awful - poor you - how could a reputable breeder do that?

I know that when keeping animals you must become hardened to death by natural causes - but to be left feeling so bereft because of the possibility that someone you trusted to provide healthy birds didn't is dreadful.

Don't give up - try again - perhaps with fertilised eggs so you have full control from the outset.

Good luck and best wishes
Monika

[red]

sorry to hear this - keeping chickens is not as easy as it seems at first..

but dont give up.. give yourself a break, then start again, lots of people have kept hens for years without too many problems.

[Rosendula]

Dear Bezzie,

I don't keep chickens and never have, but I have read your post and feel so sad for you. Warm wishes for a brighter future and a better start next time.

Rosendula x

[Shirley]

I'm really sorry to hear your news

So... how many of us poultry keepers vaccinate against this? I know we haven't vaccinated our home hatches.

[Bezzie]

Thank you for your kind words. They are much appreciated.

I've had an email from someone else who is a breeder in Scotland and advertises as selling the Scots Grey birds that I'd like to get my hands on. She has said that most breeders do not vaccinate, and that they certainly don't as they do not have Mareks in the area. Apologies for sounding cynical, though my current knowledge of Mareks suggests that it doesn't have its own consciousness and therefore how does it know that geographically it isn't supposed to go there? Perhaps it doesn't happen there now, however surely you cannot be so certain that it never will? Ironically, she was able to tell me at the end of her email where I could obtain the vaccine from if I were to go ahead and hatch my own.

She suggested also that it can lay in the ground of the property for years following. My vet didn't mention that when I spoke to her this morning, and appeared to believe that responsible breeders who are expecting to pass on birds to others would naturally have vaccinated their stock? I will have to do more research on the 'lay in the land' aspect.

Don't give up - try again - perhaps with fertilised eggs so you have full control from the outset.

Thanks Monika - I've had the afternoon to think, and I'm coming to the conclusion that I would like to obtain the eggs and hatch them myself, so that I can vaccinate them either in -shell just before hatch as I've read somewhere, or immediately after hatch. I'm a little wary on the part of the cost of setting up with an incubator, and then the cost of the lamps etc. to grow them on. After that, I can cope with the rest. So if anyones got any cheap ways to hatch with a reasonable success percentage?

Also, if anyone has Light Sussex, Derbyshire Redcaps or Scots Greys that would be willing to help me get set back up in the next season, possibly by providing eggs rather than pullets. I'm in the North Nottinghamshire area, close to Lincoln City.

Once again, thanks for the sympathy. I've commented many times to my family on the fantastic support I've found here from signing up before actually getting our birds and onwards.

I certainly feel amongst friends! Thank you so much. x

[Thomzo]

Hi
I borrowed an incubator. Why not ask around or advertise on Freecycle for one? As for the heat lamp for a brooder, don't bother. I brooded mine in a box with a normal bedside lamp over it. I kept the chicks indoors for the first few weeks so they were plenty warm enough with just the normal lamp.

Hatching can be disappointing as well. My neighbour and I had over 4 dozen eggs between us and only managed to hatch two chicks.

After seeing your earlier post, I googled it and it does say that the disease can live in the ground for a couple of years. Can you move your run to a different part of the garden? I dug out 6 inches of soil from my run before I put the new hens it.

Sorry to hear about your losses. How heartbreaking but please don't give up.

Zoe

[Aleina]

Very sorry to hear about your losses. I am quite new to keeping chickens myself and experienced similar dismay and shock when a few of my first birds died after a few months earlier this year. I suspected it was Marek's but didn't get it confirmed. Fortunately the rest of my birds have been fine since then but I lost 4 out of the 6 Marans I bought from one place.

[red]

I'm really sorry to hear your news

So... how many of us poultry keepers vaccinate against this? I know we haven't vaccinated our home hatches.

nope raised three chicks and they are now grown into chickens and giving us eggs.... no vax...

[Bezzie]

Thomzo wrote

Can you move your run to a different part of the garden? I dug out 6 inches of soil from my run before I put the new hens it.

I allowed my chooks to roam over the whole of the land and only contained them in the pen when necessary, - so chances are the Mareks will be everywhere.

I appreciate that some people are lucky enough to never have a problem with Mareks, though it clearly is a risk you have to be prepared to take. I've no option now but to have vaccination until I can be reasonably confident that the disease will have been laid to rest long enough. If I get my next brood from someone else, then its sounding like it could be preclusive if I'm specifying that vaccine must have been administered before purchase.

Guess I've just been unlucky.

[red]

i thought i read somewhere that it cannot survive cold... if this is right, you should be ok after a hard frost...

[Bezzie]

GOOD NEWS!!!!

We culled the majority of the flock last night - which is disappointing - though I handled every single one and checked them in the best way I could with my limited knowledge before doing so.

Went through all the Jersey Giants, and when it came to my single cock & hen pair for the Light Sussex, I couldn't find any evidence of any growth, though slightly underweight. It was the same when it came to my cock & hen Derbyshire Redcap - and being gamey they were putting up a valiant fight against being handled after all their White pals had disappeared from the coop at my bidding. Something inside me just said to hold out and give them a chance, and I banned my hubby from finishing the job.

This morning I took the carcasses to the vets for disposal and also took in the live hens with me (the two cocks ran out immediately I got near and decided they were not coming with me) and asked the vet if she would take a moment to look them over and see if they had a chance.

She gave the Derbyshire hen a full clean bill of health, with just a little concern re the Sussex, though that was respiratory and no sign of tumours from Mareks. So, a week of medication, and a little more feed than normal to bulk them out a bit, and hopefully it means I have a couple of pairs to start my flock again in the Spring.

Perhaps the Jerseys are more prone to Mareks as a breed? It seems that the tumours were rife in them, and haven't touched the other two breeds.

My depleted family is happily pecking around the orchard again this afternoon, albeit keeping closely together. Dad got all tearful in his happiness that I came home with the girls after the vet had seen them, so now he's the one clucking in contentment.

There is a silver lining after all.

Thanks for your comments and encouragement. I'll look forward to trying my hand at incubating and setting up my new flock next spring.

[corabella]

Bezzie found your post while searching for info on Mareks Disease because I have had a very similar experience to you. I started with 8 six week old growers in early Sept and am now down to a pair. The last sick one I took for a cull post mortem and Mareks disease was finally diagnosed yesterday. I am interested that you have kept 2 pairs as my vet says cull all and start again. However I am not so sure because these 2 are very large/healthy looking and I hope may be resistant - therefore potentially good breeding stock? It is apparent from my searches that Mareks is very common in many flocks but only manifests as disease in some. Before vaccination breeders tried to breed for immunity but with the onset of mass commercial vaccination this has ceased. I would be interested in what others think about keep or cull in these circumstances? I want to restock soon and plan to add 2 pullets to the pair and start another separate breeding group. What are you going to do about introducing new stock?

In sympathy
Corabella

[red]

my understanding is that survivors will still shed the lurgy in their dander etc.. so any new comers might catch it.
having said that you could easily introduce it with the next batch - you could argue that its survival of the fittest.. or that you should have a clean slate

[Bezzie]

Hi there Corabella

I'm so sorry that you've shared the same fate with your chickens. It's so disappointing, especially when you (like us) find out the hard way when setting up with chickens for the first time.

my understanding is that survivors will still shed the lurgy in their dander etc.. so any new comers might catch it.

I go to a vets who specialise in dealing with poultry only, and they didn't say anything about this. She implied that it is airborne between the birds.

Since I've cock two cock and two hens remaining, I'm still planning to get hold of an incubator to hatch and then vaccinate to get my flock going again. I figure this has to be the sensible route for now since the Mareks is said to live in the land for some time afterwards.

i thought i read somewhere that it cannot survive cold... if this is right, you should be ok after a hard frost...

I hope that you are right, since we had snow today! So that would be good news.

However, I'm also aware that it means that I've two boys arguing over just two girls until summer, so I'm taking on some rescue battery hens, as these will have been vaccinated against everything poultry-wise due to being used commercially so that they don't get to fighting hard in the meantime, and give my existing girls some respite!

Before anyone asks, yes I do have other coops to put them in when they first arrive rather than throwing them in with the boys straight away ..................